Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

attila · 01-18-2001, 04:40 PM

Veeco

It is clear to me that you are a competitor. The people that can't hang with the epee test do not compete on the circuit level. The test is just something you do to maximize the probability of not getting any yellow cards. It also insures that you worry about fencing and not about your gear. When you start losing DE's by one touch and it was because of two yellow cards you too will do the little test.

Attila

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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the beer"

swordsen · 01-18-2001, 08:14 PM

Guys,
I tis not a non exiztent rule to tell people to get off the strip so that the next bout can get started. and it never get's done in that ideal 5-10 seconds you are talking about d8.
A fencer should have his own stuff to test with and to be safe make sure your weight is at the heavy end of the varience and your shim a bit on the thin side. Taht way you can be sure your stuff is good and you don't drag things out.
have some consideration for the rest of the field.

And by the way, after saying this and having those things in my bag. If the director will allow it I usually test my stuff on strip. but I don't get upset if I can't, I jsut move over to the bag.

attila · 01-18-2001, 08:45 PM

Hey Swordsen

If you can't do the test in under 10 seconds, then you don't know what your doin'. It takes 2 second for the shim test and 6 seconds for the weight.

Attila

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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the beer"

d8m2k · 01-18-2001, 11:17 PM

Sword,
I never said 5-10 secs. But the time to test is short, at least for me, and those I've seen test. It may take you longer, and if everyone took that long, I too would get upset. I don't get mad at the ref though, I just test then move. And if people out there have never seen anyone do it, I suggest you travel to some tournaments and watch the top national competitors, or better yet go to a world cup.

fencingguy · 01-19-2001, 02:07 PM

this is stupid. If you don't test your weapon at the end of the bout you're just being dumb. If you think it is a waste of time and that no one does it, then you have never fenced in a tournament of any consequence (sectionals is NOT a high level tournament). For those of you who think the referee should not allow it, I have never run into a ref who has had a problem with me testing my weapons, and if I did, I don't think there is anything they can do about it. And I don't care if it's slowing up the pool, my weapons are set very specifically to barely pass the shims test. I want to ensure that I am not going to get a yellow card the next time I hook up just because I didn't test my weapon after the bout. As for a test box, the only reason to use it during the pool would be to fix a weapon that is broken, or to reset the shims or weight.

swordsen · 01-21-2001, 08:55 PM

If you could get fencers to actually go directly to the the table, have one pick up the shim while the other picks up the weight, test, switch, test, and get off it might only take a few seconds. But of course that isn't what happens, they pull their masks off, howl and scream in jubilation or frustration, pant, pace around, talke to the director, coach, team mate etc. then try to test weapons. You know it goes this way 90% of the time. I've been there and seenit/done it.

attila · 01-21-2001, 09:39 PM

Swordsen

Are you talkin' about circuits in particular? Such has not been the case for me. I have found that the higher the rating the better you are at this thing. In pools I shake the hand and do the check. The only time we do not do the check is when you are on the bad side of the DE score.

Attila

veeco · 01-22-2001, 12:57 PM

Just came back from a local tournament here in California. Out of the 18 fencers that competed in the Men's Epee competition, a crushing 70% of the top 8 did check their weapons after each bout. In the top 4, all of them did. It did not take longer than if no one had checked their weapons. At any rate, after a bout, everyone has to sign the DE sheet, which means that when someone signs the DE sheet, the other one can check their weapon.

All serious competitors do this. Do this and maybe your fencing will improve. At least you'll feel more focused. This means that once you have won your DE, you are already putting your mind into the thinking of the next DE. That'll keep you into the zone.

attila · 01-22-2001, 01:28 PM

Well done veeco. Nough said!

Attila

Rick · 01-22-2001, 01:29 PM

Guys, you can get a combo-weight tester at any Internet Fencing Supplier. 750 grams is 750 grams... cost is 25 USD.

I have one, and I use it to test my epee points the night before a tournament, and before/after each bout. Of course, the official still checks my weapon on the strip. But I'd rather be redundant than be yellow carded for equipment failure.

OBTW, you're going to need a Test-Box, too. That way, you can test not only the weapon, but the body-cord as well. Cost is approx, 20-30 USD.

d8m2k · 01-22-2001, 02:09 PM

All the serious competitors test after a bout. Rated and experienced refs allow it, I've only been told not to test at a small local event with unrated refs. There is no rule against it. So why does this argument continue?

veeco · 01-22-2001, 03:52 PM

This topic is getting over-crowded. People are not even reading the whole discussion.

Rick,
750 grams is not 750 grams. Once you find a way to manufacture weights that weigh exactly 750 grams without increasing the price of the weights by 300%, then I'll stop checking my weapon after each bout. I _have_ had weapons that passed the weight test with my test-box and my weight, but that did not pass with another combination of factors. Until then, nobody can prevent me from checking my weapon after each bout. Because there is no delay whatsoever when I do it. Just do it at the right time and the ref won't even notice it.

Rick · 01-22-2001, 07:52 PM

Veeco:
I think I missed your logic. If there was a test-weight that weighs exactly 750 grams, why would you stop testing your weapon, after a bout or otherwise?
I thought the idea of testing your weapon is to make sure it is still in working condition after a bout. Of course, I haven't been doing this that long and could be mistaken.
Also, if no one can manufacture a weight that tests-out at exactly 750 grams, as you say, then wouldn't the official's weights be in the same "error-margin" as those in the market...
You lost me there, buddy.

d8m2k · 01-22-2001, 08:25 PM

Rick,
You got lost all on your own.

Veeco,
You're right, people are not reading.

veeco · 01-23-2001, 10:27 AM

Rick,

What I meant was that the error margin is what makes me check my weapon at the end of the bout on the officials testing equipment. Otherwise I would test it with my equipment cause I would be sure that it is the same as the officials one.

Rick · 01-23-2001, 10:48 AM

Veeco:
Understood.

HilandDoug · 01-23-2001, 01:34 PM

Veeco, do you or have you found that there is that much variance? If the answer is yes, then I would have to retreat from my earlier position and reccomend a test after each bout.

neevel · 01-23-2001, 02:01 PM

Doug--

Veeco can answer for his experience, but shims certainly can eventually get worn down out of spec with use (I've seen it), and many folks don't have a micrometer to test them to verify that they're still good.

-Dave Neevel

veeco · 01-23-2001, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HilandDoug:
Veeco, do you or have you found that there is that much variance? If the answer is yes, then I would have to retreat from my earlier position and reccomend a test after each bout.

Weights don't have that much variance, about 5 grams as far as I can tell. The worst are the shims. There are so many different types of shims, and the tolerance is much less, since we are talking about very small pieces.

One problem with the weights is also that some weights have a tendency to "move around" on top of the tip, because their hole is too big.

Zelda · 01-23-2001, 07:23 PM

I'm with neevel on this one. Year before last a good friend of my got knocked out in the first round of the Nationals becuase of variation in Shims. The one being used on the strip was different to the one being used in the amoury, so even if they passed upstairs, when checking on the strip they didnt. It really stuffed her mental state. Thats why I'm all for testing @ the end of each bout with the offical shims/test weight.