Most effective tactic

[The Fish]

What kind of tactics are people here accustomed to using? I haven't really seen very diverse fencing styles (I work with about 20 other adolescent boys, desperately trying to become Jedi Knights or samurai warriors or whatever - I'm one of them, but try to be ... less.. Jedi?).

I kind of rely on confusing them by getting into a tight rhythm and then using feint attack/step lunges. Where that fails, I use PiL defence

[KD5MDK]

I like hitting my opponent, it seems to work. If that doesn't work right off, parry riposte is a nice traditional game to play.

[The Fish]

*frightened of anti-n00b biting wit and satire*
Okay
*cowers*

[swordsen]

Seriously, develope a good parry riposte and disengage. It will work wonders in foil.

[KD5MDK]

The problem is any one trick you master will get you just far enough to encounter someone who can beat it. Then you hit a brick wall. The bigger your bag of tricks, the more varieties you can throw at your opponent and the more things they'll have to counter. So asking for any "most effective tactic" won't get you very far.

Do you have a coach? Do you go to comps? If there's an LPJS near you anytime, or really anything, go and have a look and see what the middle level people do. The top people are just the best, and aspiring to be them is great, but looking at the midlevel people whose level you can reach a lot quicker will give you an idea how far you have to go.

[Bryn Ralph]

Aldo Nadi in his opus entitled "On Fencing" speaks to various tactics in foil fencing.

[parrythis]

The most effective tactic is the one your opponent expects the least.

While that sounds trite, it is true. The key, though, is to have enough tactics in your bag of tricks that you have a variety of things to throw at your opponent. If you pick one tactic and say that it's the best and use only it, you will be a "one trick pony". Your opponent will quickly figure out your game and adapt, using your strength against you and your "best tactic" won't be worth much.

Learn a variety of tactics. Have many at your disposal. Observe your opponent and figure out which tactics to employ at any given point in time against them.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by parrythis

The most effective tactic is the one your opponent expects the least.

Ture, true.. If you always do the same thing you'l always get the same response. Learn to change up your tactics and methods of deploying a touch and you'll be much better fencer.

You can have the best lunge in the world but if everyone see's i t coming you will not win much. Having a porr lunge with incorrect footing that is fast will not land touches either,

Remember in Fencing--I know that you know that I know that you knew that.... If you do what is expected they counter with what is expected.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Unfortunately, once you are introduced to "Tactic Q" (as it's called in the inner circle), you are forbidden to reveal it to anyone less worthy. We can't discuss it here. Sorry.

Keep practicing and some day maybe one of us will invite you into the cabal. Until then, however, you're stuck with lesser options like simple attack, parry-riposte, compound attack, counter-time, etc. The One True Tactic Which Rules Them All (aka "Q") is unavailable. Learn to live with it.

[rcmatthews]

seriously though, doesn't everyone have a move that they are most comfortable with?

[Epee Scherma]

Originally Posted by The Fish

What kind of tactics are people here accustomed to using? I haven't really seen very diverse fencing styles (I work with about 20 other adolescent boys, desperately trying to become Jedi Knights or samurai warriors or whatever - I'm one of them, but try to be ... less.. Jedi?).

I kind of rely on confusing them by getting into a tight rhythm and then using feint attack/step lunges. Where that fails, I use PiL defence

Everyone has their own set of tactics, but its okay to "lump" or generalize fencers in groups. This helps because then you can say to yourself that, "oh I know this general type of fencer". SO maybe people on this board can best answer your question if they identify general patterns they see many fencers do. I'll start with a few from epee.

Generalization 1:
Pommeling, absence of blade, counterattacker or attacker. Little parry riposte action. Passive distance control. Hop-a-long.
Generalization 2:
Pommeling, presence of blade, counterattacker or attacker. Will parry more than generalization 1. Takes command of distance. Footwork may not be necessarily be hopping, could be more standard small steps.
Generalization 3:
Pistol handler, mutliple feint/blade movements. Much footwork movement. Dominant control of distance. Attacker. Tempo doesnt change too much.


There are like a million generalizations, and no one seems to perfectly always fit in one. Those are just three off the top of my head. Everyone has different styles. Making generalizations can help you feel confident in making your attack, that way you don't hesitate in fear. But you know what's EVEN better than making these "tactical" generalizations? Practice making good quality feints. The more persuasive your feint is as an attack, the better read you can get of THAT opponent that you are fencing. This should be a first priority. I would never start fencing from the get go using generalizations as the above as my data. Make the feints and learn. Then act.

[The Fish]

I have a coach and everything, I fence for about two hours every Monday and Thursday... but I'm just not very good. There are some people who I just can't beat; they just randomly feint about seven times per second and do weird stuff that I can't possibly understand and always have RoW and stuff and I was just wondering, what the hell?!

[felixduc]

Distance

is the best, most effective, and hardest to counter tactic in any weapon (IMO of course)

If you can work on your distance, you'll see your game improve by leaps and bounds. My skills plateau'd when I was 15 or so; I had learned to flick consistently, but I wasn't using it effectively. I was getting really frustrated because I knew I should've been winning more than I was. So I spent that summer working on my distance. I'd practice exclusively on distance 2 or 3 times a week by fencing sabre and doing nothing but retreat and distance parries (I'm a foilist.)

My club opponents were turned off at first, but then began to relish the chance to work on their attacks without worrying about defense.

I took to the distance game very well after 2 or 3 months of it, and it became an essential part of my game. It makes every other component of your fencing more effective. And it's especially fun in foil to watch an opponent attempt a complicated multi-stage attack, only to have it fall harmlessly 6 inches in front of you.

[The Fish]

Footwork and distance, I guess, can turn any situation around... very interesting. I'm 14 and I think my skills plateau'd shortly after I learned what a parry/riposte was

[felixduc]

Originally Posted by The Fish

Footwork and distance, I guess, can turn any situation around... very interesting. I'm 14 and I think my skills plateau'd shortly after I learned what a parry/riposte was

Indeed. However, both these components of fencing require a great deal of athleticism. Obviously I don't know you nor have I seen you fence. Athletcism and talent can't really be taught, so if, for example (and just an example!), you're uncoordinated, overweight, and generally not a very athletic person, it may be in your best interest to work on aspects of your game that may be more suited to your phenotype--point control, hand work, etc. A fencer without a great deal of talent or athleticism can still be succesful on the strip simply by being a better technical fencer.

My advice would to be to determine what aspect of your game is floundering, or lacking, and rebuild it. If you're not a quick guy, work on technique. If you're naturally quick, work on using your athleticism to your advantage.

Everyone always plateaus at some point (well, most everyone) -- you just need to find the kink and work it out.

As I said, I've always been an athletic fencer. But I was wild, inconsistent, and everything was way too big and sloppy. My coach said it best when he'd see me streak down the strip, marching and flicking and going behind the head, only to lose the touch to a simple counterattack: "You're trying to be a fencer that you're not yet."

So we broke my game down and worked out until I had command of my distance. After that, everything started to come together.

Practice, practice, practice. You're very young, so you definitely have a future in the sport!

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by Sciurus-Rex

Unfortunately, once you are introduced to "Tactic Q" (as it's called in the inner circle), you are forbidden to reveal it to anyone less worthy. We can't discuss it here. Sorry.

LOL at least they all know what we call it now.... We are going to have to change the letter so when we discuss our ultimate attack, no one else will know anything about it.

Varying temp, speed and footwork patterns helps a lot too....

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Most effective tactic? Tactic no Tactic.

[Dr. Pfleschbach]

I fence epee. My general tactical approach is to figure out what my opponent is relying on most and then do everything I can to screw him up. For instance, if he tends to rely on circle six I will do a circle four against it until he gets frustrated or confused and hesitates a moment, then I go for a fast, straight, clean shot. If he likes to take the blade, I put my blade where he can't get it or way off to the side so that when he goes for it he's wide open and then I disengage and nail him. If he just has to flesch, I stay close enough to make him think he can get me but far enough so that I can step back, take his blade and counter attack with opposition. Basically, the opponent dictates the tactics I use, not me.

I guess you could say I'm a contrarian. I do my best not to cooperate. Whatever my opponent wants me to do, I try to do the opposite. The concept is layed out pretty clearly in the book, "The Art of War".

[dramamine]

my fencing is sort of a progression. if someone does simple attacks i do strong fast parry ripostes until they start doing compound attacks, then i can stop hit or close distance fast. i like to start a bout with a couple really simple attacks then a really committed broken time attack to get them thinking about counter attacking, then switch back to simple attacks and countertime. works well enough for me.

same thing when i attack, i will do strong simple counter ripostes until they start going compound/delayed, then just remise, and try and switch around.

the hard part as i'm learning is knowing when to do what. i'm getting good enough technically and speed wise that my main problem is just doing the right thing at the right time.

such is fencing

[ViewtifulMisho]

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