Have you served in your Nation's military?

[yeoldearmourer]

In the Air Force I was a PJ in Nam, Army a Ranger in Desert Storm where I got my CIB. That why I have no knees or ankles to speak of now. Neck injury from a jump gone bad. Would I do it again HE"" yes. I request to go back for Afghanistan and Iraq. My son went instead where he received the Purple Heart. My family are warriors and that all we have been since the 1600's Two nephews are marines the other was Air Force During Desert Storm me and my 3 Nephews meet up.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by needle

Navy (and Marines - they are part of Navy, not a separate branch)

In my post I was referring specifically to subs, which at least here in Sweden is part of the Navy (in turn part of the Marines, yes).


Anyway, thanks for your reply, Needle. Very interesting.

As I said I couldn't find any statistics, or articles in english, but It's known that that there is some sort of 'organisation' of mothers of dead recruits fighting for better conditions for their sons. If you send your child to conscription you wouldn't want him (there seems to be no female recruits?) sent home in a coffin.

On a side note, Needle, I would be interested in knowing a little more about the application/recruiting criteria for 'sport soldiers' (eg. fencers). It may have no relevance for this thread, so feel free to PM me if you have anything to share.

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

In the Air Force I was a PJ in Nam, Army a Ranger in Desert Storm where I got my CIB.

A question: what's a "PJ"?
A comment: the CIB is the only badge that means anything.

James.

[needle]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

In my post I was referring specifically to subs, which at least here in Sweden is part of the Navy (in turn part of the Marines, yes).

Same difference - in Soviet military both the Submarine Fleet and the Marines were part of the Navy.

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

As I said I couldn't find any statistics, or articles in english, but It's known that that there is some sort of 'organisation' of mothers of dead recruits fighting for better conditions for their sons.

Nothing like that in Soviet times. These days, yes, there is an organization in Russia, called Committee of Soldiers' Mothers - it's a charity and political organization that lobbies in Parliament for changing conditions in the Russian military.

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

On a side note, Needle, I would be interested in knowing a little more about the application/recruiting criteria for 'sport soldiers' (eg. fencers). It may have no relevance for this thread, so feel free to PM me if you have anything to share.

Sorry, can't help you there. All I know is that CKA (Army Sport Club) is the organization that takes all promising recruits for all sports, they serve in special "sport companies" - no actual military stuff, apart from wearing uniforms from time to time ... all they do is train. Ask your coach - he should know a lot more than this

[yeoldearmourer]

A PJ is the elite of the elite they are Para-rescue they are limited to a number less then 200. The Motto is So Other May Live the first MEDAL OF HONOR in VietNam was awarded to A PJ. CIB stand for Combat Infantry Badge
I also have the Expert Infantry Badge which is a test of your knowledge and skill related to Infantry which I value more then my CIB

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

A PJ is the elite of the elite they are Para-rescue they are limited to a number less then 200. The Motto is So Other May Live the first MEDAL OF HONOR in VietNam was awarded to A PJ.

Ah. Up here we call them "SAR Techs".

CIB stand for Combat Infantry Badge
I also have the Expert Infantry Badge which is a test of your knowledge and skill related to Infantry which I value more then my CIB

I'm surprised that you value the EIB over the CIB. In my mind, the CIB indicates that you have fought in combat as an infantryman and have the experience to back that up. You have been shot at as an individual and have fought the enemy "up close and personal". As such, it is the only "badge of honour" that means anything as it relates to your credentials as a soldier.

Cudos, none the less.

James.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

In my post I was referring specifically to subs, which at least here in Sweden is part of the Navy .

I thought the Swedish Navy still went about in dragonships.


You have submarines? Don't the periscopes frighten the landvettir?

[yeoldearmourer]

I feel that having the EIB help keep me alive to received the CIB I worn both on my uniform though along with my jump wings and air assault wings as well. Plus not ever infantryman can earn the EIB. The test can be a killer.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I thought the Swedish Navy still went about in dragonships.

Onl yon special occasions.

Originally Posted by Inquartata

You have submarines? Don't the periscopes frighten the landvettir?

We do have submarines, although not many. (Sw. Armed Forces -- Facts and figures. Not sure it says how many here, but it might be of interest to someone.)

Incidentally, the place where the international airport in my town lies (~30 km's outside of town), is called Landvetter.

[needle]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

You have submarines? Don't the periscopes frighten the landvettir?

Of course they have submarines - the Swedish practically invented the submarines ... ever heard of the Vassa?

[yeoldearmourer]

The Swedish navy has some very quiet Diesal Submatines. A diesal running under water is very hard to detect with sonar. The not has fast as a Nuc. but the are very quiet. When I was in Washington DC I had the chance to go aboard one that was visiting.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

The Swedish navy has some very quiet Diesal Submatines. A diesal running under water is very hard to detect with sonar. The not has fast as a Nuc. but the are very quiet. When I was in Washington DC I had the chance to go aboard one that was visiting.

We have two different type of submarines, the Västergötland class and the Gotland class.

From reading it seems we have a total of 7 submarines (hey, we're a small country!) -- all of them are named after our landscapes (ie. ~countys).

...and I don't know enough to say anything about the diesel vs. nuclear powered engines.

[yeoldearmourer]

The fact that Iran as wiskey class sub from Soviet Union in the Gulf worries the US Navy because Diesal Sub runing on electic motors are very quiet indeed and hard to find on passive sonar. It not impoosiable to find them just harder.

[Larrison]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

The fact that Iran as wiskey class sub from Soviet Union in the Gulf worries the US Navy because Diesal Sub runing on electic motors are very quiet indeed and hard to find on passive sonar. It not impoosiable to find them just harder.

Kilo-class actually -- a newer, quieter class.

The good news about the Persian gulf is that its shallow and warm -- and submarines near the surface are much easier to detect, and in warm water there are other operational considerations that also make them more vulnerable to ASW operations. In shallow water operations quieter submarines can hide in a noiser/ messy acoustic environment, but since there's a lot less cubic to hide in that may balance out. And if you're particularly concerned about specific choke points (Hormuz) then you're going to concentrate your assets on both sides. The biggest factor looks like a "pervasive acoustic sensing environment" and "a good knowledge of the littorial environment", and forcing operations into a narrow, shallow area may mean that quiet doesn't matter that much in the long term as active systems will come into play-- there will be limited places you can hide unless you are absolutely still on the bottom. And if you're playing dead on the bottom, you're not prosecuting a mission and out of the game anyway...

[yeoldearmourer]

I am not up on the class of Iran subs but Kilo is a much better diseal class. I am not a sonor expert but I toatlly understand want you post

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Feltan

My hiatus from fencing was largely due to being in the military after college.

Unlike Army Fencer in the forums, I actually had to tote a gun around and get shot at......I wish I could have fenced to pay back my college scholarship!

Regards,
Feltan

Not fair. Army's service is in medicine. Surely as noble as the path you chose. The fact that he also gets to fence now, is just pure proof that good things happen to good people!

[Feltan]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

Not fair. Army's service is in medicine. Surely as noble as the path you chose. The fact that he also gets to fence now, is just pure proof that good things happen to good people!

Oh Maeve,

I have no beef with Army Fencer. I was and am simply jealous!

Regards,
Feltan

[Teme]

Originally Posted by Larrison

The good news about the Persian gulf is that its shallow and warm...<snip>

Yes, so warm that more water evaporates than is flown or rains into the Parsian Gulf, creating a 'backflow' from Indian Ocean. For most of the year there are three thermal layers intemixing each other. Throw in the salinity layers, and you got sonarman's nightmare... With a little luck an active sonar can get an echo, but due aforementioned factors it's more likely to give just approximate direction, not depth or distance of 'target'.

Running on batteries a diesel-electric sub is practically undetectable in those conditions until it launches. Unless it comes to surface to recharge, in which case it can be heard in Diego Garcia. The threat is Air Independent Propulsion, which allows the sub to stay submerged for weeks.
That's where the Swedes excel, with their Stirling engine. And that's why HMS Gotland was 'leased' for US Navy for a year. It has performed something like 160 days of operations, mostly as 'hostile' against USS Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group. Scuttlebut says US Navy would be missing a CV if it was for real. HMS Gotland is due to proceed to similar exercises with Canadian and Australian Navies, too.