Have you served in your Nation's military?

[Reepicheap]

Originally Posted by Reepicheap

You left before <shudder>McPeak</shudder> took over as Chief of Staff. His two primary accomplishments were:
1) insult everyone in the air force who wasn't a fighter pilot; and
2) change the uniform to look more like the navy, or RAF, or business suit, depending on how it looked to you. McPeak wanted the Master+ stripes to be more like the Army. I'm not sure why he got rid of the circle for enlisted US insignia. I never understood the Sr Airman vs. buck Sgt thing anyway.

The funniest uniform thing was about two years ago when the USAF decided to get rid of army BDUs in favor of their own, 'cuz that's what the Marines did. So, they invented a blue/grey tiger stripe BDU that would not camouflage anyone anywhere; it looked like it came from a comic book. I think the USAF decided on a more subdued print...

Here it is: http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0404/airmail1b.shtml

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Reepicheap

11 years of regular USAF, flying C-141Bs and T-38As (wheee!). Then left that for the reserves for the past 7 years, 2 of which were called up to active duty flying the C-17A. Visited all sorts of hot and dusty places. The only 'combat' I've seen were sitting in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia during a SCUD attack (put on gas mask, sit in corner, hope all is well; it was) in 1991, and getting a missile warning/flare deployment departing Baghdad in 2003 for a possible SA-7. Didn't see it though. About 50 'combat' missions to Iraq and Afghanistan, but didn't see much besides the one warning.

Welcome aboard. You'll have some fun with this crowd.

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by Reepicheap

Here it is: http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0404/airmail1b.shtml

Didn't you know that it is supposed to help pilots hide in the sky? That's why the colour was chosen. And US pilots, as everyone knows, spend most of their time with their heads in the clouds.

Up here in Canada though, since many of our fine pilots fly duct-tape modifed aircraft, we've adopted a CADPAT uniform for them so that when they fall out of the sky, they can hide in the bushes.

James.

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by D.O.A.R.

Came across it at a milblog. Don't know much other than its an experimental weapon being used by Marines in Iraq. I like the opening line.

http://192.156.19.109/marinelink/mcn...9?opendocument

It's our 40mm launcher on steroids. It's a nice weapon, very easy to operate. 'Course we don't lob HE grenades out of the thing, but it can deliver a wide range of ordnance. Gotta be careful closing it after loading as some people found out the hard way, although IMO it was an operator error issue more than anything else...

[Squall_Leonhart]

I have an issue for ROTC kids not being counted. We put our names on paper and WILL serve unless something that renders us useless to the military. I say I get to vote. Wasn't there an issue back in the day whereyou would ship young guns off to battle, but they didn't have the right to vote ( or maybe I'm thinking of something that never existed, but I think I paid the right amount of attention during history class)?

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

I have an issue for ROTC kids not being counted. We put our names on paper and WILL serve unless something that renders us useless to the military. I say I get to vote. Wasn't there an issue back in the day whereyou would ship young guns off to battle, but they didn't have the right to vote ( or maybe I'm thinking of something that never existed, but I think I paid the right amount of attention during history class)?

The poll is "have you served"...past tense. Once you get your comission (or decide enlist), you start serving. Until then, you are being served since the govt has no return on their investment in you yet. My opinion is that you should not get to vote yet.

[Ramrod]

USMC. '77-81, inbetween wars, conflicts, what-have-you.

Regular grunt, Recon Marine, Scout-Sniper.

[John Myers]

I served as a Cavalry Scout With 3rd Infantry Division out of Ft. Stewart during the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom.


Recon Leads The Way!!

[Aqua_volans]

i am due for service in 2009. when i am 18. conscription. i think i won't mind the air force. but i will do anything i can to avoid the army.

[Morion]

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

I have an issue for ROTC kids not being counted. We put our names on paper and WILL serve unless something that renders us useless to the military. I say I get to vote. Wasn't there an issue back in the day whereyou would ship young guns off to battle, but they didn't have the right to vote ( or maybe I'm thinking of something that never existed, but I think I paid the right amount of attention during history class)?

Up until about 1970 or 1971 you had to be 21 to vote in the USA. The issue you mentioned was the reason the law was changed.

[John Myers]

Originally Posted by Aqua_volans

i am due for service in 2009. when i am 18. conscription. i think i won't mind the air force. but i will do anything i can to avoid the army.

Why would you try to avoid the Army I had a blast when I was in. I would go back, but health dictates otherwise.

[RITFencing]

He's not in the US, John. I don't know how the singapore military does things, but it might be really ****ty to be in the army.

[John Myers]

Ah.... I guess I should check out Profiles before I talk Sorry.

[Phrogger]

Originally Posted by Morion

Up until about 1970 or 1971 you had to be 21 to vote in the USA. The issue you mentioned was the reason the law was changed.

Technically you can join at 17 with parental permission, and still can't vote until 18, I think. Still can't have a (legal) beer, though.

[Aqua_volans]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

He's not in the US, John. I don't know how the singapore military does things, but it might be really ****ty to be in the army.

ah. it is ****ty to be in the army. thats where everyone who swears loudly in every conceivable chinese dialect, malay and tamil go to. i see alot of assholes going in and coming out worse. the MP too.

[JasminaJ]

My son is serving in the US Army, an officer, in Iraq.
Best of Luck Aqua Volans. Please try to stay alive.
I'm Kashmiri, and have friends who are Tamil, and Malayaam.
So, I've heard stories about the Army. Not good.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by JasminaJ

I've heard stories about the Army. Not good.

I've also heard some horrendous stories about the Russian and former USSR Armed Forces. Not sure of what 'weapon branch' but let's assume army.

Pennalism, murder and suicides are widely practiced. Lethal accidents are sometimes also the cause of death to young men due to worn equipment.

Also the conscription time -- two years! Wow.


I've been trying to search for facts but can't seem to find any statistics. (I may be using the wrong search criteria.) Perhaps Needle (?) could tell us more? Might be interesting or frightening. Possibly both.

[fencerbill]

Russian army, everyone less than a certain height:

"Thank you for volunteering to serve in tanks."

They had a problem with crew coming in contact with a connection from a radio to an antenna.

American solution: Insulation.

Russian solution: Sign that says "Don't touch the antenna."

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Russian army, everyone less than a certain height:

"Thank you for volunteering to serve in tanks."

Or Air Force (fighter planes) or Navy (submarines). Heh, they got all the branches covered!

[needle]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

I've been trying to search for facts but can't seem to find any statistics. (I may be using the wrong search criteria.) Perhaps Needle (?) could tell us more? Might be interesting or frightening. Possibly both.

Where do I even start?
1. Language barrier
It's important to understand that for majority of USSR population, Russian was not their native language! Three of the fifteen republics (Russia, Ukraine and Belarus) supplied recruits that could adequately communicate with each other and understand the officers. The other republics supplied recruits that varied in their command of Russian language from very good (if they came from capitals or administrative centers) to practically none, if they came from some remote Uzbek or Tadzhik villages.

2. Distribution of recruits
Branches of the forces that required good understanding of language and technology (Navy, Air Force, Strategic Missile Forces) would take good recruits from capitals, and most university drop-outs (universities protected you from conscription, but participation in ROTC was mandatory and if you dropped out, you were immediately drafted).
Most of the rest of those with good command of Russian would be taken by elite fighting forces (Paratroopers, Marines, Border Guard, Spetsnaz).
Then came the turn of regular infantry and other branches.
Whoever was left - recruits with health problems (not severe enough to get them cleared from draft) and recruits with practically no knowledge of Russian, would be taken by Construction Troops (Stroybat) - huge non-fighting part of Soviet Army, that wasn't even issued weapons (though they were pretty good with those shovels when they got into fights among themselves). Stroybat's only use in peace time was as cheap labor for government's construction and farming projects.

3. Conscription duration
Navy (and Marines - they are part of Navy, not a separate branch) - 3 years, everywhere else - 2 years. This is for enlisted men, of course. If you went to military college or to ensign school, you were in for 25 years. Time spent in combat counted at double rate.
Conscription time for enlisted men changed, I believe, somewhere around 1954 (don't remember exactly). Before that time it used to be 4 years in the Navy and 3 years everywhere else. Reportedly, during this switchover, the soldiers who were drafted for 3 years were very bitter at soldiers who served at the same time with them, but would be in the service for a year less. Urban legend has it that this was what started the tradition of abuse of new recruits by more experienced soldiers - there may be something to this, but I don't think it was the only reason - language barrier and the need to 'break in' new recruits were also a contributing factor in addition to "I got abused as a young recruit, now I'm almost done serving, you new recruits think you're better than me? You're going to get the abuse too."

4. Abuse
In official documents this was called "relations outside of military statute", in newspapers it was called "dedovschina" from the word "ded" (grandpa) - nickname for soldiers in their last 6 months of service. Soldiers in every 6 months (some places - 3 months) stretch of their service had special general nickname that established clear hierarchy - "dembel" (less than 3 months left) over "ded" (less than 6 months left) over "cherpak" (served more than 6 months) over "dukh" (passed boot camp and took the oath) over "zapakh" (new recruit). Nicknames varied by branch of service and sometimes even by unit and time period.
Basically, the higher you were in the hierarchy the more you "delegated" your duties downward and felt free to appropriate things you liked that belonged to those in lower hierarchy levels. And of course, you would need to reinforce your rights to do the above by actions that would establish your authority and set an example to those who thought they could insist on rights given to them by the official military statutes. That lead to beatings, forcing to perform dangerous unscheduled drills with no officer involvement, etc.
The officers officially were supposed to fight this practice, but unofficially many felt that it was "survival of the fittest" and benefited the toughness and fight readiness of the soldiers ... go figure.

For those who know Russian (or want to try and make sense of on-line translators), here's a good article on this subject - http://www.philology.ru/linguistics2/dyachok-92.htm

Subject is vast and I'm sure that in trying to make it brief I made some mistakes in generalizations - if you know better, feel free to correct me - I had it the easy way (ROTC in university), so my knowledge is limited to stories my friends tell and literature, but most of what I wrote is pretty common knowledge in ex-USSR and a lot of these problems still exist in Russian army and in armies of the now independent former Sovier republics.