Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

alessandro · 01-10-2001, 04:42 PM

Hey.
I heard that FIE wants to change the regular piste that we know for a "circular" piste, so the swordplay looks more like the real thing.
And so they can get fencing into TV.

I disagree with that S**T? do you?

-AleX

edew · 01-10-2001, 05:18 PM

It'll certainly make it damned hard to find venues large enough to support 20 circular pistes. And I don't see how it will improve TV coverage. TV coverage from the Olympics looks fine to me.

damianip · 01-10-2001, 05:51 PM

Because of the nature of fencing, wouldn't we just end up fencing linearly on a big circle anyway?

I'd love to try to direct a sabre bout on a circular piste!!! What determines ROW on a circle???

As far as TV goes, I'm with Eric. The straight piste is perfect for TV. What would make TV coverage better is:

1) Some TV coverage we could see.
2) Intelligent commentary which can explain the action to the public (probably much harder than it sounds).

Paolo

Arturo · 01-10-2001, 06:44 PM

This is about the 50th time that this is brought up. For the last time, IT IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!! The rumors are based on a picture that Zivcovich has on his catalog of a circular strip.

alessandro · 01-11-2001, 01:23 PM

I disagree with this circular piste, but i think that TV coverage would be better with a circular piste, because it would be more "spectacular", like the medieval fencing, they would have more space to move, jump, fence.
Arturo, where can i see that picture of Zivcovich's catalog?

-AleX

veeco · 01-11-2001, 01:58 PM

There was talk about this, actually. I've head of some guy creating a new weapon that would be fenced on a circular strip. That weapon would be kind of a mix between foil and epee, with more points allowed for touches in the foil valid area than for the limbs. There would be no right of way.

The proposal has been rejected by the FIE though.

2 things are needed before we can fence on a circular strip:

1 - Wireless scoring equipment
2 - Acceptance by a wide audience.

I don't think that this would make fencing more "TV ready".

Fencing as it is is already TV ready. What is needed is money. If there is no money behind the games, no one is interested for some reason. Only professional or semi-professional sports score large TV audiences.

I think fencing could benefit greatly from the experience of boxing. If fencing was marketed as boxing, that would be TV ready. I'm talking about the way fencing is filmed. Those lame close-ups on the shoe or the bellguard of the fencer in the middle of a bout don't add anything to the show and they make everyone lose the action.
More importantly, it has to be seen as a fight between two individuals, just like a duel. In boxing, people know Evander Holyfield, Mike Tison, because they've seen them win world championships, because they are successful.

Create a professional world championship by inviting 2 of the top fencers in the world in some big area, give a couple millions to the winner, and have them fence for a 100 touches. That will bring some TV coverage.

In the early 1900's when professional fencing was a reality, that's how fencing was conducted. Big exhibition bouts between two famous fencers, for 2 periods of 20 touches. People were crazy about this stuff.

alessandro · 01-11-2001, 03:19 PM

veeco.
whoa!, thanks for that.
i only have one question, if fencing was like that on the early 1900's, why isn't it like that today? why do they stopped making fencing an exhibition like in boxing?

gesk · 01-11-2001, 06:03 PM

veeco

I don't think 100 touches is necessary.
Maybe the market audience now is more fickled, they probably want violence and of course blood.

If there was a live telecast of a 1 touch competition, where the winner is the first to draw blood not to kill but just to inflict a scratch. I am sure that will grab peoples attention.

But by doing this fencing will no longer be the same nor encouraged by parents to their kids.

Any thoughts ?

Tyrantraxus · 01-12-2001, 05:30 AM

Gesk,

I fully agree with you..

add blood to fencing and it will rock the worldwide audience,just think about the coverage of brutal 'sports' like Vale Tudo,Ultimate Fighting,boxing..(expecially M.Tyson) compared to Olympics minors sports.

scarlet_woman156k · 01-12-2001, 08:19 AM

I think if fencers were allowed to "throw a fit" like they do in some sports (ie, ice hockey, just NOT as brutal)...and they weren't penalized for it, people would be attracted to it. Seeing them spit in the other fencers direction, or REALLY throwing their mask. Or maybe making kissy faces at the loser after the bout. (Well, I've seen that stuff before on the strip, but just not on a regular basis...).

But then again, I'd rather have the sport intact, then use "sell out" tactics just so the sport is widely popular. Why cheapen something we all love?

Who cares if it isn't talked about like basketball and football? Personally, I don't care...I'm glad it isn't commercialized and cheapened.

And yes, Arturo, the circular piste rumor has already been beaten into the ground enough. UGH!

scarlet.

latenight · 01-12-2001, 08:26 AM

Some good points. Just wanted to point out that fights in hockey are not "fits". Fights are almost always planned and seldom happen spontaneously. Whether to pay back a hit on a key player to discourage it from happening again, or just to light a fire under a team palying flat, hockey fights almost always occur because the coach has directed the player to do it. and fights are almost always between so called "enforcers".

scarlet_woman156k · 01-12-2001, 08:34 AM

latenight, fits or not, planned or not, the fights are still stupid...and look like big children having a hissy fit.

Plus, I was just using it as an example of aggression displayed in a sporting event.

latenight · 01-12-2001, 08:38 AM

I got you Scarlet, just a little hockey lesson(I played through college). I think we should dance the "dirty bird" after every touch and come out to music like the WWF. Maybe a director could thow a folding chair onto the strip. A fencer could throw salt in the eyes of his opponent and then slam him on the scoring table. Quality stuff

veeco · 01-12-2001, 10:43 AM

I never advocated the appearance of blood into our sport. Nor did I say we should add the ability to check your opponent. Fencing is a sport of gentlemen, and as such, things like those should be censored from TV audience :-).

I just think that if the whole thing looked more like a duel between 2 people and not a messy competition with 20 strips and people all yelling at once, then we'd have a better image. No need to TV the whole competition. We can TV exhibition bouts, with say the number one fencer in each weapon from each continent, each of those fencers fencing 3 bouts of 20 touches. The one who wins 2 bouts or more out of 3 wins the 100 million dollars :-).

Think about the audience who watched that track race between Linford Christie and Michael Johnson. There was money at stake, and everyone was eager to see who was the best sprinter of the world.

MikeHarm · 01-13-2001, 08:15 PM

Wether we adopt his new ideas or not, I think its good that Zikovich is working on new things, if for the sake of something to talk about if nothing else. Speaking of which, did anyone try his new plastic foils? Looks pretty weird. I heard a similar sort of thing was tried in the past with fiberglass type blades once and bombed out.

Mike

introspective · 01-16-2001, 03:41 PM

Well :0, as neither Beligerent Sorceress nor Damian have not favored us today, I will add that the idea of fencing in circle is sort of nice. I wouldn't mind trying this out sometime.

[This message has been edited by introspective (edited 01-17-2001).]

rusty epee · 01-18-2001, 02:53 PM

I have the perfect solution for keeping circular piste combat "real:" scatter day-old baguettes around the perimeter, which opponents are allowed to grab at random without penalty and use as a weapon in the unarmed hand.

Anyone who has ever experienced a day-old baguette will understand this.

------------------
Youth and enthusiam are no match for age and treachery....

introspective · 01-19-2001, 12:43 PM

we all know you're kidding around about this, but it's okay. we can speculate on this for a while. All of fencing would change wouldn't it? We wouldn't be able to run backwards or forwards as fast or as much as we are used to and that would be no fun.
No leaps! No bounds! No hopping! Very little ducking! what else would happen! Our electric cords would get all tangled up! We'd be a mess. No, fencing in a circle is probably not a good idea unless we change alllllll the rules, and alllllll the regulations. HEY WAIT A MINUTE: that sounds like a good idea!