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twisterfencing · 03-03-2006, 12:11 AM

Couple of weeks ago, had a fencer that brought to me a blade asking to have a new tip put on it that he had. Turned out to be a Schermasport Epee tip. The one with no screws.

I agreed. For us old f@rt armourer's, I have to be totally honest, I have never put one of these things on before

.

Man, was this item a fun, fun, joy, joy!

Anyone else used, played with, or installed one of these on a blade?

What are your thoughts on this tip?

Gary

yeoldearmourer · 03-03-2006, 09:50 AM

I installed one for my son about 3 years ago. Now the first thing you needed to do was to clip the soilder on wire while pulling the wire even with the top of the cup. then you can adjust the travel by removing some of the post to have it past travel. i cant stress the impotnce of filing the post off evenly eles it can cause a short. Once you get the right touch to do it it become like any other wiring job. By the way you not a old f@rt armourer until you have a least 20 years of doing it. oh yea did I mention it alot easier if you modify a 7mm open end by grinder it down smaller to fit on the tip plus the 6mm for the barrel

MTD · 03-03-2006, 12:39 PM

(I presume we're all discussing the Schermasport screwless épée point, not the Schermasport screwless foil point!)

AFS (which sells Schermasport screwless épée points) maintains a Web page (http://www.amfence.com/html/art__187...asport_scr.htm) discussing details. I just revisited the page, and there are details which I don't remember originally being there, specifically concerning installation and maintenance.

Oddly, Tim speaks of a 7 mm wrench, ground "smaller" (thinner, presumably?; I've always had a hard time making the gap on a wrench smaller with a grinder or file) and a 6 mm wrench. The Web page writes of a 7 mm "key" and a 5 mm "key". So, which is it, 6 or 7?

The illustration on the Web page provides a hint. I admit it's a little imprecise trying to measure the illustration. When one measures the width of the tip (recall "The diameter of the crown of the pointe d’arrêt is 8 mm with a tolerance of ± 0.05 mm.") and sees that the row of pixels forming one side of the diameter of the crown is 114 pixels from the row of pixels forming the other side, one is still not sure whether it was drawn with the intent that the diameter of the crown be represented by the pixel-center to pixel-center distance, or the pixel-outside to pixel-outside distance, or what (about a 1% source of error). Anyway, the scale seems to be 14.24 ± 0.09 pixels per millimeter if one assumes the pixel-center to pixel-center is what represents the actual width. The wrench flats for the 5 or 6 mm wrench are drawn with rows of pixels separated by 80 pixels, implying that the width is 5.62 ± 0.04 mm. That's neither 5 mm nor 6 mm! For the spot for the 7 mm wrench, there is only one wrench flat drawn, but if they were both drawn, the distance would be 94 pixels, or 6.60 ± 0.04 mm. That's not 7 mm either.

If one makes a leap of faith and assumes that the barrel is drawn to scale (but the tip is drawn about 6% too wide), and that the 7 mm wrench flat really is drawn as 7 mm, then the other wrench flat is 6 mm as Tim says, not 5 mm as AFS says. On the other hand, if one makes this assumption, then the barrel is actually wider than the tip!

The photograph on the Web page provides a second chance to measure. But, it's a JPEG which is compressed enough to create some very fuzzy edges. However, it seems to show a 6 mm wrench flat.

yeoldearmourer · 03-03-2006, 01:28 PM

Thinner is what I wanted to say the flat area on the barrell is 6mm for thighter the barrel. And 7 mm is the base of the tip.

Purple Fencer · 03-03-2006, 02:32 PM

My only concern is with the need to file the end of the contact...as has already been said, it needs to be done flat or it won't work reliably...and how many fencers are REALLY gonna pay attention to not only keeping it flat, but also to how much they take off?

I thought this one adjusted with those little microwashers in the tip....or is that the Schermasport with the screws?? Or is it Negrini????

DangerMouse · 03-03-2006, 03:15 PM

I bought a few of those and used them for about a year. The tips themselves are great, but the barrels kept loosening and I can't seem to figure out any way to keep them tight. Overall, I was very pleased, but the lack of parts availability and the loosening barrels have pushed me to change back to more traditional tips.

yeoldearmourer · 03-03-2006, 03:56 PM

You do it very carefully and check it often to make sure you dont take off to much.

Purple Fencer · 03-03-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

You do it very carefully and check it often to make sure you dont take off to much.

Well yeah....people like you, me, Gary, etc....WE'LL take the time. The average fencer adjusting the tip for the first time??? Probably not. You know as well as I do the percentage of fencers who actually KNOW how to do their own armory is somewhat low.

twisterfencing · 03-03-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

I installed one for my son about 3 years ago. Now the first thing you needed to do was to clip the soilder on wire while pulling the wire even with the top of the cup. then you can adjust the travel by removing some of the post to have it past travel. i cant stress the impotnce of filing the post off evenly eles it can cause a short. Once you get the right touch to do it it become like any other wiring job..

I did just what you are speaking about, just was a ton of fun. Tim, good to hear from you. How are things in ID.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

By the way you not a old f@rt armourer until you have a least 20 years of doing it.

Tim, hopefully, I can make it that long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

oh yea did I mention it alot easier if you modify a 7mm open end by grinder it down smaller to fit on the tip plus the 6mm for the barrel.

I used my 6 & 7 MM wrenches, I had both and used both,,,was not a problem at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

My only concern is with the need to file the end of the contact...as has already been said, it needs to be done flat or it won't work reliably...and how many fencers are REALLY gonna pay attention to not only keeping it flat, but also to how much they take off?

Once you have it set/filed, its pretty much on cruise control from there. Takes a light touch on the filling, yet once this thing is set and glued in, your done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

I bought a few of those and used them for about a year. The tips themselves are great, but the barrels kept loosening and I can't seem to figure out any way to keep them tight. Overall, I was very pleased, but the lack of parts availability and the loosening barrels have pushed me to change back to more traditional tips.

Totally agree DangerMouse, one item that I preach on is blue/med locktite on the threads before I set the barrel. This works about 90% of the time. Parts for these tips are few and far between. I looked at all the vendors web sites and only found a handful that even stocked this tip to get parts for here in the US.

DangerMouse · 03-04-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twisterfencing

Totally agree DangerMouse, one item that I preach on is blue/med locktite on the threads before I set the barrel. This works about 90% of the time. Parts for these tips are few and far between. I looked at all the vendors web sites and only found a handful that even stocked this tip to get parts for here in the US.

I used blue loctite and still had problems, which suprised me bacause I haven't had any other manufaturer's barrel work loose in years.