Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

trazom · 03-02-2006, 02:13 PM

For those of you who referee, especially those without the luxury of people to act as scorekeeper and timekeeper, which tools do you use? (Excluding cards, weights, shims)

jdoiv · 03-02-2006, 02:25 PM

a PocketPC program for this? I gave up on Palm OS a couple of years ago.
Also, related but a bit off topic, does anyone make or sell plastic penalty cards like they use in soccer? The soccer ones come in yellow and red but no black is available.

KD5MDK · 03-02-2006, 02:28 PM

Swordmasters sold me my set of plastic cards.

This poll is flawed. As someone without a working PalmOS device, a good referee will use notecards (for pools) rather than an unwieldy clipboard. Much much easier to keep score on, make hand signals, all around a better idea.

I feel almost strange in a sabre bout with a scorekeeper, my hands are empty. Just feels wrong.

Edit: Also, stopwatches bad. Countdown kitchen timers good. Much better to listen for a beep than try and keep an eye on a racing number.

tbryan · 03-02-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trazom

For those of you who referee, especially those without the luxury of people to act as scorekeeper and timekeeper, which tools do you use? (Excluding cards, weights, shims)

Flawed poll: missing option - Stopwatch, pencil/pen, and a scrap of paper. No clipboard.

They (FOC? US National Bout Committee?) encourage referees not to use a clipboard. They feel that it makes the hand gestures difficult to follow or (worse) that the referees feel awkward with the clipboard and just skip the hand gestures.

Even in five touch bouts, I make too many mistakes if I try to track score on my fingers. It just takes one complicated situation, especially ones involving equipment problems, for me to lose track of the score entirely. Even without a complicated situation, I lose track of the score from time to time. There's enough stress as a referee. No need to have fencers angry at you about losing track of the score. Much more reliable to write it down.

trazom · 03-02-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Edit: Also, stopwatches bad. Countdown kitchen timers good. Much better to listen for a beep than try and keep an eye on a racing number.

Dunno. Most stopwatches I've seen have the countdown function. My kitchen timers always stick and so I have problems with the start/stop on them.

I've never used notecards as they've seemed no better than using the back of the stopwatch.

epeemike81 · 03-02-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trazom

For those of you who referee, especially those without the luxury of people to act as scorekeeper and timekeeper, which tools do you use? (Excluding cards, weights, shims)

I referee in NE Division. I use the remote.

-m

tbryan · 03-02-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Edit: Also, stopwatches bad. Countdown kitchen timers good. Much better to listen for a beep than try and keep an eye on a racing number.

If my timepiece doesn't have a countdown timer, I try to recruit someone to watch it and call time if the bout goes past two minutes. If I can't find anyone to help, I check time during halts. I glance when there's no action going on or when I "feel" that time must have expired. Otherwise, I just watch the action and press the Stop button as soon as I see the light on the box. If I look at the clock, and it says "3:06" or something, I simply inform the fencers that the touch arrived after time expired. It's better if someone can call halt when time passes three minutes, but in non-ideal situations like this, the fencers are pretty understanding, and this technique seems to work pretty well. Better that than say, "I'm sorry. I didn't see that action. I was looking at the clock. Time? Yes, sir. There are 2 seconds remaining."

oso97 · 03-02-2006, 02:42 PM

I use a kitchen timer, small pencil and a scrap of paper (using the flat front of the timer as a writing platform). I've got my cards in my pockets (Yellow: Jacket Front, Red: Left Inside Jacket, Black, Right Inside Jacket). Nametag is clipped to the front pocket of the jacket. I also have my wieghts and shims, plus a spare pencil, a small clipboard, and a test box in a small bag.

tbryan · 03-02-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trazom

I've never used notecards as they've seemed no better than using the back of the stopwatch.

Yeah, but after a while, you'll use up all of the space on the back of the stopwatch.

hpfencing · 03-02-2006, 02:51 PM

I have a bag will ALL the equipmenet I might need to referee.

Countdown timer
note cards
mulitiple sets of cards
Pencils
block
shims
wieght
coin
rubber bands
key chain rings
tighting tools
small screwdriver

After talking to numerous referees that is the best "referee kit" that I have been able to come up with.

DJ Apostrophe · 03-02-2006, 02:51 PM

I'm with epeemike81 on this one...

-w

Mauler · 03-02-2006, 02:52 PM

No clipboards..... Bad......

You get your *** kicked if you're caught using one while reffing at National level. You have to go to the "principal's office" up at the BC and get redoctrinated on the whole purpose of why you came here in the first place. And how the USFA membership has invested $600~$1,000 to get you out there.

Then all your reffing friends make fun of you for "dropping the ball." And you find your hotel room lock filled with gum. And you get intercepted randomly at the hotel lobby by Ninja referees, get your arms and legs duct-taped, and get dunked head first into a big bucket where the bartender has been dumping the night's "left overs"....

And afterward they lock you in a room with Mr. Roboto and you have to listen to his philosophical/religious dissertation on the chi of hand signals... the conclusion of which features his demonstration of how a clipboard can be disruptive to the flow of life force, including smashing your head with it repeatedly until it breaks.

Don't use clipboards....... No clipboards....... Clipboards bad..... *twitch*

You should ALWAYS document EVERYTHING that happens in a bout, though. NEVER EVER rely on your, or anyone else's memory. So a small piece of paper that doesn't take the attention away from the hand signals is an ideal replacement.

Yeah, don't ever use clipboards when you're reffing.... *twitch* .... *twitch*........

Mauler · 03-02-2006, 03:00 PM

Oh, yeah. I carry around a couple of hairbands incase I get someone who's never heard of the "hair rule" in ROW weapons, and has no easy means to remedy it. Mostly it's the boys that need help. Girls take care of themselves.

pacer · 03-02-2006, 03:00 PM

for cards, I picked up red, yellow and black formica samples at my local home improvement store. (I glued two of the same color together so it doesn't matter what side I use)

KD5MDK · 03-02-2006, 03:02 PM

This is why I bring my own timer...

As for clipboards, I'm intending to get a "DE clipboard" at some point, but haven't had the chance yet.

Also, who can forget the Leatherman multitool?

oso97 · 03-02-2006, 03:06 PM

I can't believe I forgot, and no one else mentioned, the little measuring block! I also have that too in my ref bag.

Mauler · 03-02-2006, 03:11 PM

hpfencing already mentioned block.

trazom · 03-02-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoiv

a PocketPC program for this? I gave up on Palm OS a couple of years ago.

I've been looking around for one as well. I used scorepad until my old PDA died, and I'm debating replacements (PocketPC vs PalmOS)

I'm surprised that noone uses any PDA software for reffing here. They used to be pretty popular. I personally don't like PalmFencer's interface, and wanted more functionality than ScorePad, and my attempt to program my own fell flat. It mostly worked until there was an OS upgrade.

KD5MDK · 03-02-2006, 03:19 PM

I saw a number of Referees using them at Houston. I just think that the number of national referees posting here so far isn't 100%, or near it.

jdoiv · 03-02-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trazom

I've been looking around for one as well. I used scorepad until my old PDA died, and I'm debating replacements (PocketPC vs PalmOS)

I'm surprised that noone uses any PDA software for reffing here. They used to be pretty popular. I personally don't like PalmFencer's interface, and wanted more functionality than ScorePad, and my attempt to program my own fell flat. It mostly worked until there was an OS upgrade.

http://www.planche.de/en/about.html

Looks like someone in europe may have a program for pocketpc. You have to register to his site and then get approved before downloading it. I'll give a review once I get it downloaded and installed. May take a week or so depending on how fast he approves me.