Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

hpfencing · 03-03-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I did not read through all of this so hopefully these have not been repeated yet. A couple of fun alternatives to the clipboard/scrap of paper:

Clear packing tape and a dry erase marker. Put a swatch of tape on the back of your off hand, mark the score for each fencer during the bout and then transfer it onto the DE sheet while the next set is hooking up. Wipe the back of your hand clear with a napkin and repeat.

Cool diving forearm clipboard: When I was in Oki we got these cool toys from some of the PJ's that we used to dive with. It was a little clipboard with depth and o2 charts printed on it that fastened to your forearm via a couple of velcro strips. We used underwater makers and paper to communicate on wreck or cave dives. Very cool, but I have not dived since becoming a civi si U don't know how common they are. Still, I have to think this is to cool of a thing not to be found in a civi dive shop.

Other than that I have my timer and my cards as well as a combo pencil/pen/marker and my knife. Either a benchmade or a leatherman or both. You would be surprised how handy those can be if you are also often called to armour for your fellow refs...

I'd like to try that type clipboard!

HDG · 03-03-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

Cool diving forearm clipboard: When I was in Oki we got these cool toys from some of the PJ's that we used to dive with. It was a little clipboard with depth and o2 charts printed on it that fastened to your forearm via a couple of velcro strips. We used underwater makers and paper to communicate on wreck or cave dives. Very cool, but I have not dived since becoming a civi si U don't know how common they are. Still, I have to think this is to cool of a thing not to be found in a civi dive shop.

Shouldn't be too hard to rig one up, and I recall having seen diving instructors in the keys using something similar.

dberke · 03-03-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoiv

a PocketPC program for this? I gave up on Palm OS a couple of years ago.
Also, related but a bit off topic, does anyone make or sell plastic penalty cards like they use in soccer? The soccer ones come in yellow and red but no black is available.

A few years ago, I wrote a PocketPC app for keeping score. PocketFencingTime, as it was known, could do entire pools (it recorded the entire pool sheet, including bout order) and had some limited support for DEs. It also was a fully-functional scorekeeper/timer with cards and all.

It never quite made it out of the beta stage, so I'm not currently officially supporting it. However, it still is available - contact me if you are interested.

How much interest is there in a PocketPC version? I have considered reviving the project and might do so if people express an interest in it.

Dan

jdoiv · 03-03-2006, 03:56 PM

Hi Dan,
I would be interested in playing around with it. I would need to know if it would work on my HP (running pocket pc v. 4.2 on an intel pxa255). Exaclty what do you mean by limited support for DE's?
John

dberke · 03-03-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoiv

Hi Dan,
I would be interested in playing around with it. I would need to know if it would work on my HP (running pocket pc v. 4.2 on an intel pxa255). Exaclty what do you mean by limited support for DE's?
John

I'll PM you with the URL where you can get the software.

I say limited support for DEs in that it only allows you to enter the final score. If I do a future version, I'd like to make it work just like a DE slip where you can enter the scores in the order that they occur. At the time, however, I wasn't able to get that feature in.

Dan

fencerX · 03-05-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberke

A few years ago, I wrote a PocketPC app for keeping score. PocketFencingTime, as it was known, could do entire pools (it recorded the entire pool sheet, including bout order) and had some limited support for DEs. It also was a fully-functional scorekeeper/timer with cards and all.

As much as I like FencingTime, "PocketFencingTime" is a bit much to say (or type).

Hmmn. So let's see ... not much support for DEs, but it's good for pools. It's a PocketPC app. Obvious name for app: "PocketPool" for Referees. Yeah, that's the ticket.

jdoiv · 03-14-2006, 03:29 PM

So, I signed up with Planche to do some alpha testing on their Arbitre product on my Pocket PC and thought I would give a quick review.
The software is definately in alpha stage but shows some promise to be an effective tool. The UI is very intuitive and easy to figure out. It isn't ready yet to be used in a competition. Very limited functionality at this point, but I did get a sense of where he is taking the development. It has the ability to manage either a pool or a bout. You can pick a bout from the pool sheet to direct and it takes you directly to the referee bout screen and puts the fencers names in the correct order. It will need some more work before it is ready to use so I'll give more feedback after the next update. Of interest to those with either palm or smart phone devices, they have several os specific releases and I plan on testing the J2ME version next.

KD5MDK · 03-14-2006, 07:41 PM

When you say it places fencer names in the correct order, would it have provision to designate a fencer a left handed and thus slightly "re-ordered"?

jdoiv · 03-15-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

When you say it places fencer names in the correct order, would it have provision to designate a fencer a left handed and thus slightly "re-ordered"?

The current release is an alpha and lots needs to be done to it to make it a useful program. Currently you can not switch sides on the display, though that is something that will be added later.

jdoiv · 03-15-2006, 11:51 AM

Since I gave a quick review of Arbitre, I thought I would write a quick review of Pocket Fencing Time as well. I just downloaded it and was able to install it on my Pocket Pc this morning (thanks Dan). Development wise it is leaps and bounds ahead of Arbitre. I haven't really found much that it doesn't do. You can direct either pools or DE bouts. It does not seed the pool so you have to do that manually. Once the fencers are in the correct order on the pool sheet, you can move directly to fencing the individual bouts (which are in the correct order and allow you to correct for teammates). You can also switch sides on the score keeping screen for lefties (very nice feature). The bout score screen has all the necessary info on it and allows you to set the clock up or down incrementally as well as picking out pre-set times (3, 2, 1, or 10 minutes). Cards can be noted next to each fencers score and priority can be generated and noted under each fencer. Scores can be adjusted up or down should you hit the wrong button or hit it twice. The scores are automatically put into the bout table and after all the bouts are filled in all indicators are automatically totalled. The results tab has shows the indicators and also allows you to have the fencers sign the scorecard. DE's are not as automatic as things in the pools, but you can fill everthing in manually. Only thing I can think that would be helpful would be to have a penalty chart with drag and drop capabilities added in. Overall, it is a good little program that I'll use for local and club stuff.
John

trazom · 03-15-2006, 12:49 PM

On the PFT program,

For DEs (one of the features I've really wanted but few programs provide, although PalmFencer might if it would stop crashing my TX), does it allow you to see the order of touches scored as you would on the official scoresheet?

Such as:
A: 0 1 1 2 ..... 14 15
B: 1 1 2 2 ..... 7 8

I'm still considering writing my own (again) as the some of the functionality I want seems to not be available. Besides, it gives me a little programming challenge which I no longer have in my job (darn promotions to management).

fencerbill · 03-15-2006, 01:05 PM

Comparing Favero and SG scoring machines with score indicators. The Favero blinks the score for a couple of seconds after you enter it. Very useful in confirming the addition of a score and not double adding a score.

Do these scoring programs do something similar?

edew · 03-15-2006, 01:41 PM

PalmFencer does offer ordered touches for the DEs (up to 15 points, though, so can't be used for team events) and allows switching the order of the fencers.

ScorePad doesn't have fencers names, so doesn't need the order switching feature (you just raise or lower the appropriate side's score to the correct values).

As for the flashing score after entry, that is definitely a nice feature, especially when an accident or injury occurs immediately after the touch and the referee doesn't remember whether the score has been updated or not.

I usually keep both a pencil-on-paper score and the display score (or PalmFencer/ScorePad) score so that I have redundancy. I've been in situations where the referee keeps score on fingers and I've been screwed for a point or two (no, not in the same bout).

jdoiv · 03-15-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trazom

On the PFT program,

For DEs (one of the features I've really wanted but few programs provide, although PalmFencer might if it would stop crashing my TX), does it allow you to see the order of touches scored as you would on the official scoresheet?

Such as:
A: 0 1 1 2 ..... 14 15
B: 1 1 2 2 ..... 7 8

I'm still considering writing my own (again) as the some of the functionality I want seems to not be available. Besides, it gives me a little programming challenge which I no longer have in my job (darn promotions to management).

It seems to only keep the score and doesn't show the order the touches were registered.

Anari · 04-06-2006, 11:54 AM

Pocket PC's? Well I can tell you I haven't seen a referee use on of those here yet. We either have incredible memories, or we use your dreaded clipboard. But we put the clipboard down when we ref (it is irritating for hand signals). The last guy who complained to me about having a clipboard on the ground because of safety was told to stay out of my reffing space!

I don't see the problem with clipboards, they are inconvenient, but a PocketPC just seems a bit overkill for me (although it does sound kind of cool). Then again, we are very rarely without people to scorekeep for us. Stopwatches are fine, haven't really had a problem there for a while (but every now and then you get the ref who presses the reset button...) so I would say...STOPWATCH AND CLIPBOARD!!!

(Runs off to hide from the mob of angry referees)

KD5MDK · 04-06-2006, 03:41 PM

PocketPCs are a personal thing. If you have one, why not use it?
At National level events referees are often assigned in pairs (usually one experienced and one developing), so for pools and such they can scorekeep for each other. On the other hand, it's much faster to hold a notecard in your hand and write on that than it is to pick up a clipboard, and keeping score in your head will get that head bitten off as unprofessional and risky.

fencerbill · 04-06-2006, 06:21 PM

And there is the ultimate paradise, which I think has been previously articulated by edew:

Every referee leaves a $100 deposit and is then issued a $50 handheld, next generation pocket PC/Apple. His pool is transmitted over the wireless net and he fills out ongoing pool results. When all the fencers have waved their speedpass or had their thumbprint scanned, the results are transmitted to the BC and auto entered into the computer. !0 seconds after the last pool is transmitted the DE table is sent back to the handhelds and the DE's start before the last fencer has had time to slam his mask into his fencing bag and refill his water bottle.

jdoiv · 04-07-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerbill

And there is the ultimate paradise, which I think has been previously articulated by edew:

Every referee leaves a $100 deposit and is then issued a $50 handheld, next generation pocket PC/Apple. His pool is transmitted over the wireless net and he fills out ongoing pool results. When all the fencers have waved their speedpass or had their thumbprint scanned, the results are transmitted to the BC and auto entered into the computer. !0 seconds after the last pool is transmitted the DE table is sent back to the handhelds and the DE's start before the last fencer has had time to slam his mask into his fencing bag and refill his water bottle.

Is that this is all possible today. What fencing needs is a tech sponsor. I think HP would be the perfect candidate for this role. Somebody should get on the phone and call their CEO and pitch this idea. Seriously....

Imagine too, if the pocket pc in question also acted as the remote for the scoring box. They have built in IR on the handhelds. I'm guessing that it would be a relatively simple program to write if the box manufacturers would give up the ir codes.

DJ Apostrophe · 04-07-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoiv

Is that this is all possible today. What fencing needs is a tech sponsor. I think HP would be the perfect candidate for this role. Somebody should get on the phone and call their CEO and pitch this idea. Seriously....

Imagine too, if the pocket pc in question also acted as the remote for the scoring box. They have built in IR on the handhelds. I'm guessing that it would be a relatively simple program to write if the box manufacturers would give up the ir codes.

STAY AWAY FROM HP!!!

I say this based on my experience working for a company whose principal product is powered by an HP iPAQ... dealing with them is sheer hell...

that is all... back to your regularly scheduled program...

-w

trazom · 04-07-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoiv

Is that this is all possible today. What fencing needs is a tech sponsor. I think HP would be the perfect candidate for this role. Somebody should get on the phone and call their CEO and pitch this idea. Seriously....

Imagine too, if the pocket pc in question also acted as the remote for the scoring box. They have built in IR on the handhelds. I'm guessing that it would be a relatively simple program to write if the box manufacturers would give up the ir codes.

I know of several programs for the Palm at least which capture the ir codes from remotes, so, if you had the remote for one of the boxes, you could capture the ir code.