Refereeing Tools

[DJ Apostrophe]

I will occasionally use scorepad... when i remember to dig up my old handspring visor and take it with me... I've since moved on to an HP iPAQ... and really haven't seen anything worthwhile... I used to have the Pocket PC version of FencingTime, but that was a couple years back.... I have grand plans to write something... but that hasn't gotten off the ground yet....

-w

[notalent]

Greetings KD5MDK,
I use Palmfencer, you can't beat it for keeping track of your pool. Makes doing the math easy. The clock is programable if you have issues and need to set it to a non standard time. Last but not least it has yellow and red cards built in, though I have been advised that we should show an actual card. I leave the score sheet on the table. I'm a notorius scavenger about weight and shims and pencils

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I saw a number of Referees using them at Houston. I just think that the number of national referees posting here so far isn't 100%, or near it.

[yeoldearmourer]

visited my web site for referee supplys www.yeoldearmourer.com.
From my understand using plam pilot to keep score on is illegal no paper trail.

[edew]

That is incorrect, Tim. You may use any recording device, whether it's a handheld device (such as a PDA with PalmFencer, ScorePad, or even the memopad application where you make some hash marks) or pencil and paper or even the remote control scoring display on the scoring machine (which would certainly imply no paper trail).

Indeed, at the NACs and Summer Nationals, they also tell the referees how to enter the scores on the pool and DE scoresheets when such devices are used.

I use the PalmFencer all the time, except for team events, where the DE mode is screwed up royally. There, I use ScorePad. After a pool bout is done, I transcribe the score from the PDA to the scoresheet (after each bout, not at the end of the pool: the fencers should be able to see what their scores were and contest it there and then if there should be a problem). For the DEs, I hold both the scoresheet and the PDA in my hand and mark the points in the order they were scored on the sheet while keeping the score tracked on the PDA as well. That way, I have redundancy.

Of course, if there's a scoring machine remote, I don't bother with the PDA.

[yeoldearmourer]

Thanks for the update the last I heard was because of no paper trail

[edew]

Fingers are not allowed, because fingers do not maintain a record. At the 2005 Summer Nats in Sacramento, Ivan Lee was refereeing the Y10WS on the first or second day. I was watching him because one of my fencers was in the pool he was refereeing. He was keeping score with his fingers and somehow got the score wrong. A coach questioned him on it and he couldn't verify the score. Don't know whether it hurt the either fencer in the end or not, but after the bout, I went up to him to explain that he should keep a record of the score, even for a Y10WS event, and I'd thought it would be nice for him to be initiated by being verbally b*tchslapped by a coach. Easiest way to learn, in some cases, is the hard way.

[KD5MDK]

The Bout Committee won't tolerate you holding up your Palm for them to look at or something, they demand you turn in paper. But how you got from the hand signal to the paper is allowed to be electronic.

[peet]

I shared a pool of 7 with Wayne once, and he had us using one of his business cards to record the score. I never would have guessed that you could actually fit a whole pool of 7, including priority marks (it was epee) on the front & back of a business card, working around the printed text and logo!

The pencil *was* nice & sharp!

-p

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Mauler

No clipboards..... Bad......

what if the clipboard was ITSY BITSY? .... like, the size of an index card??


That said, I ref other than at practice almost never. but i have yellow, red, and black floppy disks. which are borrowed by people reffing quite often.

one of my friends on my team crocheted my coach cards. they were quite popular at New Englands.......

when was the last time you saw a fencer get carded, pause, and then ask to see the card again?????????

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Ok, here is a cool way to card somebody (mind you, its just an idea, I dont think anyone would ever have the lameness/chutzpah to do it). If you are delivering a red card, put on a red pair of sunglasses, if its a black card, black sunglasses, and yellow shades for a yellow card.

[Inquartata]

No PDA.

No clipboard.

And I only ref sabre, so no stopwatch, either. Hurrah!

I use, variously, a small pad of Post-It notes, which provides a sufficiently rigid backing to permit writing, or a piece of paper folded enough times so it's rigid enough to write on properly. And a pencil. When the box has no remote.

In a pinch, those ceramic penalty cards make a good writing surface. But they can frighten the fencers if you use them thus.

[qatet]

My new Palm has a color screen, and the less satisfying battery life that goes with it (plus, it has my brain in it. I'd cry if I dropped it.). My old Palm doesn't like to talk to my computer. I loved PalmFencer, but if I can't get it on my old Palm, I'm perfectly happy with Eigertek's solution. (Although I ref enough novice tournaments that I _really_ miss the option to switch the scores as the fencers switch sides.)

[oso97]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

what if the clipboard was ITSY BITSY? .... like, the size of an index card??

Perfectly acceptable. I used to use one myself, before I found a flat-fronted kitchen timer.

[fencerbill]

Best timer is from Shakeawake. It buzzes when you start, when you stop, and at the end of time. No falling asleep with it and you don't have to look away from the fencing.

About ten years ago I picked up surplus (99 cents each) scoring indicators from some board game. They have 2 dials with 0 to 9. Fine for pools and for DE's you just have to keep track of whether it is 2 or 12.

[yeoldearmourer]

Vist my website for a small clipboard that I made it about the size of a index card and I can even cut it in half to make it smaller

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by qatet

My new Palm has a color screen, and the less satisfying battery life that goes with it (plus, it has my brain in it. I'd cry if I dropped it.). My old Palm doesn't like to talk to my computer. I loved PalmFencer, but if I can't get it on my old Palm, I'm perfectly happy with Eigertek's solution. (Although I ref enough novice tournaments that I _really_ miss the option to switch the scores as the fencers switch sides.)

If you're at a tournament with another referee who has it, ask them to beam it to you. I saw several copies of one of the programs (it wasn't clear which) distributed at Houston that way.

[FencingKitten]

I'd actually prefer one (Gary Van der Wege has one like what I'm thinking) that is the same size as a DE sheet. That is, 8 1/2" wide, but only about 2" tall, with a binder clip on one end. I just haven't gotten around to deciding which of my clipboards is the most decrepit, yet, so I can make them for myself and KD5MDK.

I use an index card for pools.

[qatet]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

If you're at a tournament with another referee who has it, ask them to beam it to you. I saw several copies of one of the programs (it wasn't clear which) distributed at Houston that way.

Well, yes, I could beam it from my new one, but the program needs a registration code, and I can't get that in, since I'd need to Hotsync to do the code. Blah.

[CvilleFencer]

I did not read through all of this so hopefully these have not been repeated yet. A couple of fun alternatives to the clipboard/scrap of paper:

Clear packing tape and a dry erase marker. Put a swatch of tape on the back of your off hand, mark the score for each fencer during the bout and then transfer it onto the DE sheet while the next set is hooking up. Wipe the back of your hand clear with a napkin and repeat.

Cool diving forearm clipboard: When I was in Oki we got these cool toys from some of the PJ's that we used to dive with. It was a little clipboard with depth and o2 charts printed on it that fastened to your forearm via a couple of velcro strips. We used underwater makers and paper to communicate on wreck or cave dives. Very cool, but I have not dived since becoming a civi si U don't know how common they are. Still, I have to think this is to cool of a thing not to be found in a civi dive shop.

Other than that I have my timer and my cards as well as a combo pencil/pen/marker and my knife. Either a benchmade or a leatherman or both. You would be surprised how handy those can be if you are also often called to armour for your fellow refs...

[sabreur]

Most of the tournaments I've reffed at have the fancy scoring machines that have a clock built in and let you register the score on them. You just have to learn to use the remote.