Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

JayhawkPawn · 03-02-2006, 03:00 PM

Direct from leonpaulusa.com: "On average Americans pay 30% more for premium imported fencing equipment. Leon Paul USA add no mark up to the European prices."

Sydney FIE 800N Jacket from leonpaulusa.com cost: $329.18
http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/a...E_800N_78.html

Sydney FIE 800N Jacket from leonpaul.com cost: £152.34 or $267.16
http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Sho...E_800N_78.html

Google tells me that 1 British pound = 1.7537 U.S. dollar, so, with this, is there something up, or are we paying a 62 dollar roughly 24 percent markup?

Edit: With shipping, you can buy the jacket from LP Uk for... £168.84, which is $296.10 So... markup-AHOY!

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 03-02-2006, 03:03 PM

If this is right, which it appears to be, then LP is a douche.

oiuyt · 03-02-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Direct from leonpaulusa.com: "On average Americans pay 30% more for premium imported fencing equipment. Leon Paul USA add no mark up to the European prices."

<SNIP>

Google tells me that 1 British pound = 1.7537 U.S. dollar, so, with this, is there something up, or are we paying a 62 dollar roughly 24 percent markup?

Apples to apples.

I believe that LP-USA matches the in-store price (roughly) of LP. Which includes 17.5% VAT. That accounts for most of the variance that you're seeing. Can't explain the other 7%, unless that's just currency fluctuation since the website(s) were last updated.

-B

***Craig*** · 03-02-2006, 03:19 PM

The Leon Paul USA prices are based on the UK+VAT pricing, which is UK+17.5%.

The rate Google shows is a "midmarket" rate, and not what you'll actually pay to "buy" pounds with dollars. The rate for an actual transaction has ranged between 1.815 and 1.875 dollars per pound, plus wire transfer fees for the past 6 months.

Craig

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Direct from leonpaulusa.com: "On average Americans pay 30% more for premium imported fencing equipment. Leon Paul USA add no mark up to the European prices."

Sydney FIE 800N Jacket from leonpaulusa.com cost: $329.18
http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/a...E_800N_78.html

Sydney FIE 800N Jacket from leonpaul.com cost: £152.34 or $267.16
http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Sho...E_800N_78.html

Google tells me that 1 British pound = 1.7537 U.S. dollar, so, with this, is there something up, or are we paying a 62 dollar roughly 24 percent markup?

Edit: With shipping, you can buy the jacket from LP Uk for... £168.84, which is $296.10 So... markup-AHOY!

JayhawkPawn · 03-02-2006, 03:21 PM

Just to add fuel to my own fire, here's an electric epee, assembled, with a LP blade, and other assorted kit.

Leon Paul UK:
Electric-Epee Electric Epee assembler 1
E10LP Blade - Blade type: Leon Paul Size 5 (£33.18) 1
82NI + 92SML Handle - Handle type: Aluminium Crosse/Orthopaedic/ Belgian Handle (£8.53) 1
E72 Guard - Guard Type: Standard Guard (£7.40) 1
E26 Inside Guard Socket - Inside guard socket: Standard Inside Guard socket (£4.53) 1
88 Pad - Pad Type: Standard Pad (£0.67) 1
Hand - Hand: Left Handed 1
Price: £54.13 or 94.93

Leon Paul USA:
Electric Epee assembler (Reference Electric-Epee)
Blade - Blade type: Leon Paul Size 5 ($71.74) (Reference E10LP)
Guard - Guard Type: Standard Guard ($17.45) (Reference E72)
Handle - Handle type: Aluminium Crosse (orthopaedic) Handle ($18.44) (Reference 82NI + 92SML)
Inside Guard Socket - Inside guard socket: Standard Inside Guard socket ($9.40) (Reference E26)
Pad - Pad Type: Standard Pad ($1.45) (Reference 88)
Hand - Hand: Left Handed
Price: $117.03

U.K.
Vision 2000 F.I.E. mask for Foil and Epee with transparent visor, 1600 Newtons(Reference 285C)
Price: £162.03 or $284.15

USA
Vision 2000 F.I.E.Foil and Epee mask with transparent visor, 1600 Newtons, Stainless Steel(Reference 285C)
Price: $350.31

Purple Fencer · 03-02-2006, 03:27 PM

Just to give a little background on vendor costs...the material in an 800N clothing article may cost around $40 per square meter (depending on Euro/Dollar fluctuations)....that's part of the cost. Add on the cost of labor and you getg an idea WHY FIE gear costs so much, even in the home country. And I didn;t even include the costs of homologation...

keith · 03-02-2006, 03:43 PM

The more hands something has to pass through before it reaches you the more that thing is going to cost - todays statement of the bloody obvious.

I doubt that there is much difference between LP and any of the other manufacturers in terms of vendor margin - I suspect fencing kit is a low volume business.

The only question is whether Craig (or any supplier) provides enough service that it is not worth the hassle of trying to save a few bucks by shopping from an overseas supplier.

Smyles · 03-02-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Just to add fuel to my own fire, here's an electric epee, assembled, with a LP blade, and other assorted kit.

Leon Paul UK:
Price: £54.13 or $94.93

Leon Paul USA:
Price: $117.03

But, as was said above, the price is taken as the price including VAT. So for this weapon it works out at:

Leon Paul UK
Price: £63.60 or $111.56

Leon Paul USA
Price: $117.03

Which is damn close to no mark-up when Pound/Dollar rate fluctuations are taken into consideration!

Same goes for the mask:

Leon Paul UK
Price: £190.39 or $333.94

Leon Paul USA
Price: $350.31

So I wouldn't be complaining!! On top of this price we have to pay for shipping - you get it for free!

Just to let you know. If I was to have that weapon delivered to me the total cost would be:

£80.05 or $140.45

NOW compare this to the $117.03 you'd have to pay!!

JayhawkPawn · 03-02-2006, 03:49 PM

You don't pay VAT when ordering from the UK. Why should I compare prices including it?

Smyles · 03-02-2006, 03:58 PM

Well if you want to be like that - you can't expect to get free shipping!

Cost of ordering that weapon from the UK site and having it delivered to Florida (as a random example) would cost: $123.88

No matter what way you look at it you're getting a great deal and if anything we're paying more over here!!

You can't just decide to add some costs and not others when comparing prices

JayhawkPawn · 03-02-2006, 04:33 PM

Since when did this become "The prices aren't marked up, if you include shipping, VAT, the cost to sacrafice a lamb to the fencing Gods, and a personal stipend to US customs?" The prices are, without adding in 56 other factors that aren't mentioned, noted, or even easy to see, marked up. Arguing that a TAX should be included from a country that doesn't pay it when it sends it to the US is ridiculous. And there is a reason why LP USA gives free shipping, it covers the markup you're paying already.

keith · 03-02-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Since when did this become "The prices aren't marked up, if you include shipping, VAT, the cost to sacrafice a lamb to the fencing Gods, and a personal stipend to US customs?" The prices are, without adding in 56 other factors that aren't mentioned, noted, or even easy to see, marked up. Arguing that a TAX should be included from a country that doesn't pay it when it sends it to the US is ridiculous. And there is a reason why LP USA gives free shipping, it covers the markup you're paying already.

sorry but you want sellers/resellers to offer you a free service

LeonPaul USA offers you what is essentially the same price for an item that a UK fencer would pay for that item. Now you don't have to pay UK tax but you do need to pay the reseller for their time effort. If you feel that they are over charging for their time/effort then you have a choice - buy direct.

fencerX · 03-02-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smyles

Well if you want to be like that - you can't expect to get free shipping!

Oh, stop being ridiculous people -- while the shipping may be included in a price, it's certainly not free.

JayhawkPawn is cutting through the marketing hype and working on figuring out the actual cost to him/her for various options. Good for him or her.

achilleus · 03-02-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Since when did this become "The prices aren't marked up, if you include shipping, VAT, the cost to sacrafice a lamb to the fencing Gods, and a personal stipend to US customs?" The prices are, without adding in 56 other factors that aren't mentioned, noted, or even easy to see, marked up. Arguing that a TAX should be included from a country that doesn't pay it when it sends it to the US is ridiculous. And there is a reason why LP USA gives free shipping, it covers the markup you're paying already.

And above is the crux of the issue.

LP said something that isn't quite true. Now, when they explain what they mean by no mark up, that you pay the same price as a person walking into their London shop, it makes sense, but there is a mark up for the US consumer.

Considering the cost of getting the equipment from the UK, either transporting yourself or the equipment, it's a pretty good price to just buy from LPUSA or Craig.

Considering that the prices are roughly equivalent to what other vendors charge for other manufacturers equipment, which isn't as pricey as LP to begin with, it looks like a very good deal. Provided, of course, you like LP, and don't want to deal with international shipping, or don't like Allstar/Uhlmann

twisterfencing · 03-02-2006, 07:01 PM

Here is an easy way to find out an answer to all problems listed in this thread.

Take a flight to UK, buy your stuff there, bring it back to the US, then order the same stuff here and compare the diffrences. Now take the diffrence including your airfare and see if it comes up to 17% more or not? Meaning: We live here in the US and everyone of us know and expect we are going to be paying somewhere between 15% to 25% more for equipment here than in Euro. Heck, I know of vendors that take a flight to Euro, and bring they're stuff back in suit cases so that they avoid terifs, import taxes, duties shipping and so on just to keep the cost down so that the Fencer does not have to pay the higher fees, or so that they are not the most expensive for these items in the fencing world.

Not trying to sound like a smart a$$, but we are comparing pocket change to a very complicated issue here. Euro VAT, pound to dollar, shipping, orders orginating from a US company to a British Company, then back to US. Heck, I am just glad Craig and Alex can keep it straight and make a profit. Yes, make an honest profit. This is a good thing in my book. If they have a profit margin built into the prices for shipping to the US, Great! I can only hope this margin does not tear into they're ROE (return on equity).

Sorry guys, I just don't see what the worry is about?

Smyles · 03-02-2006, 07:18 PM

Agree completly with twisterfencing. The point I was trying to make (I was in a bit of a rush so it didn't exactly come out the way I meant it) was that:

Taking the epee as the example again:

Living in the US:
Order from LP USA, pay: $117.03
Order from LP UK, pay: $123.88

Living in Ireland:
Order from LP UK, pay: $140.45

All I'm trying to say is that whatever way you're looking at it you're getting a great deal over there and complaining about the price being marked up is just being silly.

mfp · 03-02-2006, 07:55 PM

Sometimes it pays for US customers to order from the LP-USA site.

Sometimes it pays for US customers to order from the LP-UK site.

It all depends on what you're buying (and when).

The easiest way to figure out on which site a particular order would cost the least for a US customer is to simply build the order on each of the two sites to get the total cost from the US site in USD and the UK site in GBP.

Since the UK site prices out in GBP, US customers then need to convert that to USD and add the cost of foreign exchange. The easiest way to do that is to look the spot exchange rate on xe.com and then add (a conservative) 4% markup to reflect the fx and credit card cost. Then compare the US price to the UK price and order from the site with the lower cost.

An example:

Say you want to buy a "S285CX X-Change Vision 2000 F.I.E Electric sabre mask with transparent visor and removable 1600 Newtons bib"

US: The total cost on the LP-US site: USD $439.39

UK: The total cost the LP-UK site: GBP 222.02 or USD $404.70 after converting at the spot rate and adding 4% for fx and cc costs.

So do you want to pay $439.99 or do you want to save approx $34 on this order? The choice is up to you. At least LP allows you to choose from whom you order, unlike the exclusive rackets some other vendors have going.

Note that while the particular order above on this particular day priced out with an cost advantage for the US customer if they ordered from the UK site, there are also certainly cases where a US customer would save by using the US site.

rcmatthews · 03-02-2006, 08:04 PM

What exactly was the point of this thread? You can order from either site, and the price difference in the two is marginal.

achilleus · 03-02-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcmatthews

What exactly was the point of this thread? You can order from either site, and the price difference in the two is marginal.

The point is stated in the first post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Direct from leonpaulusa.com: "On average Americans pay 30% more for premium imported fencing equipment. Leon Paul USA add no mark up to the European prices."
...
markup-AHOY!

It's about the claim of no mark up.

What Jayhp seems to be ignoring is the part about European prices...

Really, though, all this was covered when LP-USA first opened. I remember numerous threads on the subject of how they set their prices...

twisterfencing · 03-02-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achilleus

It's about the claim of no mark up.

I wanted to see for myself about the above claim. Not picking on you achilleus, just wanted to see for myself.

Went to LP UK, just picked an item at random.
Foil/Epee mask: Part Number F100
If I was in the UK, I would have to pay they're VAT: total price is: 55.40 stearling
Now, went to LP USA, same mask: Part Number F100
US Pricing: $101.94

Now, here is the breakdown to compare:
Todays exchange rate (asking) is $1.7538 (may be just a small amout diffrent when they set prices on US web site

LP UK mask in US dollars $97.16
LP USA mask in US dollars $101.94
Total diffrence= $4.78

OK, I still do not see where LP USA or UK has mis-quoted anything in anyway!
LP UK cannot control how our US dollar will go up or down, nor keep someone on staff to keep changing the US website everytime our Dollar goes down. They have (according to this thread) made an open ended statment that the US prices will be the same as the UK's. In my opinion, they are doing just this and honoring they're promise.

Sorry for the long post guys, just wanted to see for myself.

Gary Spruill