Fencing "Game" Book

[hpfencing]

I have dicided it's time for me to start getting organized and if I'm going to do it for me I might as well have others benifit from it as well.

I want to create a "book" of games that people use to teacher different fencing skills. After finished (probably mid-summer) I would like to have it bound and out for all to use.

Who would like to help me with this vast project?

I am working a a template of information that would be needed for anyone using the book. Here is a really rough outline if anyone wnats to send in any games.

Game Name:
Short Discription:
Weapons: Foil, Eppe and/or Saber
Materials/Supplies needed for the game:
Min/Max number for game:
Detailed description of game:
Diagram: (any type drawing or diagram to help others to understand the game)

If you have any entries for this "book" please send them to me at matt.hite@amaisd.org and please post them here as well.

I am also looking for pictures of people playing those same games.

My goal is to get about 100 games in a big collection under these categories:
Footwork (F,E,S), bladework (F,E,S), general conditioning, general fencing.

Who wants to help me out?

[oiuyt]

Rather than (or in addition to) having it bound, how about just a PDF that can be easily distributed places such as f.net? Doing things in the physical world very quickly starts to add non-negligiable costs to the project.

-B

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

I want to create a "book" of games that people use to teacher different fencing skills. After finished (probably mid-summer) I would like to have it bound and out for all to use.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087322972X/

[RoninX]

Really! when are people going to figure this out and do away with the physical world all together. "All I need to know I learned with C++"

But seriously, it actually might be helpful if you do have some of this compiled to post it where people can see what you have already to avoid some duplication. Presumably you have stuff like "flesch for the glove", "kick the nickel when you lunge", "PCV distance control" already included?

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by fencerX

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087322972X/

NO this is a book of games not an instruction book. This book will only have games (example: the glove game) not how to fence. Wrong concept.

The PDF file is a good idea too!

[Moniteur]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

NO this is a book of games not an instruction book. This book will only have games (example: the glove game) not how to fence. Wrong concept.

The PDF file is a good idea too!

PDF is a good idea - though if you want to stay in the physical world, you can also use cafepress and have things perfectbound in paperback form.. just set up a cafepress shop, follow the submission requirements, upload your document, and you've got a print on demand paperback. The base price on the books is $4.00, to which you can add whatever mark-up you might or might not want.

[RoninX]

Speaking of markup - are you viewing this as a money making venture? If so then clearly posting what you have in order to help speed to input process is out.

If this is more about information dissemination another option would be to see if f.net would let you post a permanent link to a free wiki site or something like writeboard.com where you can set up a document designed for online collaboration for free.

[robert]

A simple warm-up game for kids is double ball soccer. Use two different coloured indoor soccer balls and both are in play at the same time. Team A can only score with one colour and B with the other. It gets a bit wild but with two balls more of the kids get involved in the play (fewer end up standing around) and secondarily they must make decisions all of the time. I.e. to attempt to score with their team’s ball or defend against the other teams.

Just put the games on the web...everyone can see them, cut and paste, edit as needed, thus all are able to put the ones they like in their coaches notes

[oiuyt]

Not to mention once non-negligiable money starts becoming involved you're significantly more likely to have potential issues with contributors rights and people expecting that any financial gains be shared amongst the collaborative writers. In my experience people are significantly more willing to donate time/effort/knowledge when it's going to someone similarly doing so rather than to someone expecting/hoping to profit from the activity. Once any money gets involved that line starts blurring rather quickly.

-B

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by robert

A simple warm-up game for kids is double ball soccer. Use two different coloured indoor soccer balls and both are in play at the same time. Team A can only score with one colour and B with the other. It gets a bit wild but with two balls more of the kids get involved in the play (fewer end up standing around) and secondarily they must make decisions all of the time. I.e. to attempt to score with their team’s ball or defend against the other teams.

Just put the games on the web...everyone can see them, cut and paste, edit as needed, thus all are able to put the ones they like in their coaches notes

Mmmm, without the limits on which team can score with which ball this is something I use as a warm-up in my fencing class(es). With a single ball the game was generally dominated by those a) with higher skill level b) more interested in actually moving around. I added a second, and then a third ball to the games. Dramatically increased the average participation level.

-B

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

NO this is a book of games not an instruction book. This book will only have games (example: the glove game) not how to fence. Wrong concept.

My point exactly -- if your goal is to "teach different fencing skills" then starting with and only including "games" appears to be missing the concept. What are you trying to teach again?

The "rough outline' that you posted requested;

I am working a a template of information that would be needed for anyone using the book. Here is a really rough outline if anyone wnats to send in any games.

Game Name:
Short Discription:
Weapons: Foil, Eppe and/or Saber
Materials/Supplies needed for the game:
Min/Max number for game:
Detailed description of game:
Diagram: (any type drawing or diagram to help others to understand the game)


Strangely, there's no explict request for information on the most important parts -- what's the fencing skill the game alleges to help with and how?

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Not to mention once non-negligiable money starts becoming involved you're significantly more likely to have potential issues with contributors rights and people expecting that any financial gains be shared amongst the collaborative writers. In my experience people are significantly more willing to donate time/effort/knowledge when it's going to someone similarly doing so rather than to someone expecting/hoping to profit from the activity. Once any money gets involved that line starts blurring rather quickly.

-B

I would not contribute for exactly this reason.

There is already a ton of free training advice available on this site, and I do contribute here. I consider it a public service.

I have developed very detailed and specific programs that I utilize to enhance the fencing experience for my students (95% young kids). I have worked hard to compile them from my personal sport experience, professional training, and a wide variety of expert sources (both published, and professional consultation). What would I benefit from sharing these programs with the general public?

Nothing.

[hpfencing]

This would be a book for coaches to use that know about fencing not for a beginner to look at and learn to fence with.

I was planning on just giving everyone copies of the pdf and no publishing it in hard copy. It's not about royalties and what not, it's about ehlping coaches and sharing ideas, colabration.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by RoninX

If this is more about information dissemination another option would be to see if f.net would let you post a permanent link to a free wiki site or something like writeboard.com where you can set up a document designed for online collaboration for free.

This is a GREAT idea.... A fencing colaboration web-site/area. I'll ask Craig..


Thanks!

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

I would not contribute for exactly this reason.

There is already a ton of free training advice available on this site, and I do contribute here. I consider it a public service.

I have developed very detailed and specific programs that I utilize to enhance the fencing experience for my students (95% young kids). I have worked hard to compile them from my personal sport experience, professional training, and a wide variety of expert sources (both published, and professional consultation). What would I benefit from sharing these programs with the general public?

Nothing.

LOL. I guess Mr. Epee is worried about someone else setting up shop in Epeeton and stealing all his students!

But seriously if the larger goal for the fencing community is improvement of participation and interest at a national and international level isn't information sharing about warm-up and training games in everyone's interest?

If this list was compiled would you not peruse it and try and bring any pertinant information to your future students? It seems like everyone involved in fencing education would have something to gain from a project like this. That would be what you have to gain - or do you have a rigid set of drill which you no longer take input on?

If the latter is the case my pardons, you are competely in the right.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by RoninX

LOL. I guess Mr. Epee is worried about someone else setting up shop in Epeeton and stealing all his students!

But seriously if the larger goal for the fencing community is improvement of participation and interest at a national and international level isn't information sharing about warm-up and training games in everyone's interest?

If this list was compiled would you not peruse it and try and bring any pertinent information to your future students? It seems like everyone involved in fencing education would have something to gain from a project like this. That would be what you have to gain - or do you have a rigid set of drill which you no longer take input on?

If the latter is the case my pardons, you are completely in the right.

And one EPEEist to rule them all! (did I just say that out loud?).

That's not quite what I meant.

At a certain point, knowledge becomes valuable, and it is important for those with specific knowledge to profit from the personal investment required to obtain the material which they poses, and which others desire. An educated society is a good thing, but you don't see many universities handing out education for free. Fencing isn't any different.

Another smaller, but important, issue is competitive advantage. How many training tips do you really want to give away to folks vying for your, or your student's, position on the podium? This is a lesser point, because the mark of a great coach is not a wide variety of drills, but rather the ability to sufficiently motivate the students, inspire a true spirit of passion/desire, while fostering a healthy educational environment. This is much much harder.

I personally prefer to pay for the input of qualified professionals, over the free advice thrown together by amateurs. That's just me, others may feel differently.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

An educated society is a good thing, but you don't see many universities handing out education for free. Fencing isn't any different.

You mean like MIT?

[RoninX]

Fair enough, we differ on the value of the end product here.

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

[b]
I personally prefer to pay for the input of qualified professionals, over the free advice thrown together by amateurs. That's just me, others may feel differently.

Well, that is certainly a better idea than paying for the advice of amateurs, but is it better than receiving the free input of professionals?

I'm curious how you feel about the recent findings that wikipedia (free info thrown together by amateurs - but admittedly reviewed) is no less accurate than the encyclopedia brittanica (put together by paid pros).

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

You mean like MIT?

Wiseguy, huh?

The contributors aren't working for free.

It is jointly subsidised by the university and by private foundations (William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation)

Keep looking for that free lunch, buddy.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by RoninX

Fair enough, we differ on the value of the end product here.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. No problem there.

Well, that is certainly a better idea than paying for the advice of amateurs, but is it better than receiving the free input of professionals?

I strongly question the motives of professionals who work for free.

In a murder trial would you rather be defended by a random attorney willing to work pro bono, or would you seek out the biggest, baddest, most experienced murder defense attorny you could find.