Fencing "Game" Book

[RoninX]

Mr Epee: I understand your point however comparing training games to a university education is in my opinion a little over the top. They are the basis for the higher level skills which I am sure you are very adept at teaching as well, and creating a resource to assist in developing a strong fencing foundation is a great idea. I am eager to contribute once HP decides on the format he would prefer.

Clearly I'm not going to change your mind, rather I would like to encourage others to collaborate, as a more complete, resource is to the good of the fencing community.

Quote: "I strongly question the motives of professionals who work for free.

In a murder trial would you rather be defended by a random attorney willing to work pro bono, or would you seek out the biggest, baddest, most experienced murder defense attorny you could find. "

Cynicism will only take you so far. If the biggest, baddest most experienced attorney I could find offer me his assistance pro bono (whether it was out of the goodness of his heart or for a tax write-off or to get publicity for his new book, I wouldn't turn him down.

[Lady Riposter]

Do a search for fencing games on this message board. A while back I asked for ideas for games I could play with my fencing class and the people here gave me some great ideas and directed me to some other threads that had been posted.

[wflaschka]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

I have dicided it's time for me to start getting organized and if I'm going to do it for me I might as well have others benifit from it as well.

Open source fencing. Thumbs up.

Originally Posted by hpfencing

I want to create a "book" of games that people use to teacher different fencing skills. After finished (probably mid-summer) I would like to have it bound and out for all to use. ... Who would like to help me with this vast project?

http://www.oxfordfencing.com/grimoire.html. It's shaggy, but it may have some stuff that is usable for you. Sources from all over the net.

Hope it helps.

(You can "Save as..." the web page to your local box, which then (theoretically) makes it editable when you open it in your browser, e.g., you can edit / expand your own personal copy. Thanks to the opensourcey folks at http://www.tiddlywiki.com/.)

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

What would I benefit from sharing these programs with the general public?

Nothing.

The satisfaction of sharing your skills to help other coaches improve? More people staying on to do fencing because of better coaching?

And whatever other reasons people like David Littell, Allen Evans, and the Canadian fencing federation might have had for making their amazingly useful coaching notes available to anyone with internet access.

Sheesh. I'm glad not all fencing coaches share your outlook.

[Amadeus]

no offense, but no one would buy such a book...it's just not worth it.


i understand that your goal is to help the community. might i suggest wikipedia? get an account, create a page called "fencing training games" or some such, and post away.

even better, you could tell us about it and we'd all post our ideas directly, meaning less work for you.

[hpfencing]

Maybe that is what we need, a place to store trianing "things" for coaches and what not, including drills, games, and lessons. I am a technology person by trade and can easily build a web-site for EVERRYONE to use. Not sur about structure of teh web-site or contents yet.....

I'll start playing with it now.

[RoninX]

Thats cool. Just remember there are several free options out there already as possible places to start. Whatever you decide please let us know - and I really think that it would be great to be able to link to it directly from fencing.net.

[walrus418]

I believe in sharing; it makes everyone better. If I finds something that works or detect a problem in those I fence with I always take the time to tell them what they are doing wrong, or what I am doing that they are not seeing. (I am an instructor, so this is important to the development of the fencers in our club.) This makes them smarter and make me work harder the next time to find ways to score, and to defend.

At competitions I do the same thing, within the bounds of common sense. (Obviously AFTER the bout, and only if the other fencer is receptive.)

[_fence(1)]

I think putting it on wikipedia is the best idea so far

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by Poulet

This is the worst idea I've ever heard. Off yourselves, all of you.

We want to help eachother and not live in small boxes; it's time the fencing world starts thinking outside the box!

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

At a certain point, knowledge becomes valuable, and it is important for those with specific knowledge to profit from the personal investment required to obtain the material which they poses, and which others desire. An educated society is a good thing, but you don't see many universities handing out education for free. Fencing isn't any different.

Another smaller, but important, issue is competitive advantage. How many training tips do you really want to give away to folks vying for your, or your student's, position on the podium? This is a lesser point, because the mark of a great coach is not a wide variety of drills, but rather the ability to sufficiently motivate the students, inspire a true spirit of passion/desire, while fostering a healthy educational environment. This is much much harder.

I personally prefer to pay for the input of qualified professionals, over the free advice thrown together by amateurs. That's just me, others may feel differently.

Absolutely.
Although, this looks more like an attempt by amateurs to organize their knowledge and share information. I'm sure there will be nothing new or startling in the PDF should it ever come together. However, for novice coaches, it might be a nice--though surely very imperfect--resource.
Highly-trained, professional coaches wouldn't have any reason to add much (other than, perhaps, the always important need to advertise their knowledge--it's all marketing, baby: give them a free taste to get them hooked), but the amateur coaching community--like any amateur community--gets a lot out of this sort of communist experiment.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by Poulet

Actually, I wish I could box most of you up...

Funny, very funny....

[Mr Epee]

This just occured to me:

There are several hundred fencing games/exercises listed in one of Szabo Laszlo's books. If you've never seen the activities, then they can be a little hard to figure out from the translated descriptions, and, IIRC, accompanying stick figure drawings.

If you are serious about this project, maybe someone could "decode" them into a more understandable format, and possibly include photographs?

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Neil

The satisfaction of sharing your skills to help other coaches improve? More people staying on to do fencing because of better coaching?

The satisfaction of sharing? Seriously? Let's try something. You send me a check for a $1,000, let some homeless dude live in your home for free, and let your best friend get sloppy with your girlfriend/wife, and then we'll revisit this "satisfaction of sharing".

Sharing rocks, but there are reasonable limits.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by Poulet

u mad?

No. I just love the way many people turn someone's endeaver to try to help others into a joke instead of trying to help but it's not worth my time worrying about that.

I know Szabo's work but I don't think I am familiar as to which book you ar refering. I'd gladdly add decoded and pictures to the list in the book, good idea. Which book is it?

Anyone else willing to help.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

The satisfaction of sharing? Seriously? Let's try something. You send me a check for a $1,000, let some homeless dude live in your home for free, and let your best friend get sloppy with your girlfriend/wife, and then we'll revisit this "satisfaction of sharing".

Sharing rocks, but there are reasonable limits.

Heh, of course there are. And sharing one or two of your coaching games falls way inside those limits.

If you've spent time, money and effort coming up with a fun and effective coaching program for children, that's great. You're under no obligation to give it away. But posting "I've got this super wonderful coaching program that I developed, and could help a lot - but hey, there's nothing in it for me" is not cool.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by Neil

If you've spent time, money and effort coming up with a fun and effective coaching program for children, that's great. You're under no obligation to give it away. But posting "I've got this super wonderful coaching program that I developed, and could help a lot - but hey, there's nothing in it for me" is not cool.

Thanks Neil you are 100% right.

In public education we share ideas to make each other stronger I wish I could get that across to people.

If I was after money I would NOT be in the fencing world!

[RoninX]

Don't worry HP it seems like MR. Epee is pretty much the lone nay sayer, almost all other comments are positive. The pictures are a great idea though, the drawings in fencing books are always so hokey.

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by RoninX

Don't worry HP it seems like MR. Epee is pretty much the lone nay sayer, almost all other comments are positive. The pictures are a great idea though, the drawings in fencing books are always so hokey.

Thanks well I put the project aside the last 6months but I am starting to work on it again... If ANYONE has games or ideas please send them my way..

Thanks

[VorpalCat]

Aw man, when I saw the thread title, I thought someone had come up with an Ace of Aces-type game for fencing.