black cards

[servdragoon]

has anyone in sabre ever gotten a black card for a hard reposte. I had a director threaten me with a black card because of a reposte i gave that he said was too hard.

[Peach]

"Deliberate brutality" is a black card offense. "Dangerous, violent, or vindictive action, blow with pommel or guard," is a Group 2 red card, meaning you can't get a black card, just repeated red cards.

Depends on whether you were being deliberately brutal or just being a yutz.

[Inquartata]

How experienced was the referee? Some hits in sabre look and sound vicious, but the receipient scarcely feels them...

[AndrewH]

Hard riposte, no. I've gotten red cards for similar actions though, that the director judged was "too hard". Usually they'll give you a warning first so you know to tone it down.

The only time I've been threatened with a black card was when I refused to apologize after a (deliberate and hard) bellpunch. I did apologize eventually though so I wouldn't have to miss our next meet (this was on my highschool team).

->Andrew<-

[oiuyt]

If I'd been your coach and thought that it was deliberate you'd be missing more than the next meet, apology or not. There's no place for this in our sport.

-B

[Peach]

Funny thing - right after this thread started, I was in a tournament today where there was a touch with bell guard (it really doesn't happen that often). For ONCE I was able to quote the rule applicable verbatim without checking my cheat sheet.

[servdragoon]

After i was threatened by the director i immediately went over to my opponent to see if i had hurt him and to apologize and ask him if he was hurt. He showed absolutely no sign of pain from the touch and answered me as if asking him if he was hurt was a dumb question. Even after that the director would give me dirty looks even when the tournament was over. I think there are times when you have to do a really fast cut to insure that the cut touches before a counter-riposte. That was what i was trying to do. The fact that it might have landed harder than the director would have touched someone doesnt deny that the faster someting moves the harder its impact is going to be.

[sabreur]

Even the fastest cut doesn't have to be hard if you use your fingers to make the cut and keep your hand loose. The cuts that hurt are those where the fencer "clubs" the sabre (ie., holds it very tightly in the fist, rather than with the fingers) and executes the cut from the wrist, forearm, or worst of all, the elbow.

Regards, MR

[HilandDoug]

Serv, you still haven't responded to the part of the question we need to hear: How experienced was the referee?

It has been my (limited) experience that if the opponent shows no sign whatsoever of being hurt, the referee has no business injecting his or her opinion as to whether it was too hard. Obviously, if your opponent is doubling over in pain, then yes, it was a hard hit. If the opponent shrugs it off and returns to the unguard line, the ref has no business making a fuss over it.

[its_me_mango]

<img src="graemlins/freak2.gif" border="0" alt="[Freak]" />
sometimes i try to make it look as though i'm clobbering someone, but i land light, i learned that in batmitton, when i learned an outstanding drop shot, but i don't fence saber now. but, it does take more energy, so now, i think a good tactic is to train consistently in level of effort, going all out when you really need it.
that what i think.