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BenTheEMOP · 03-01-2006, 02:28 PM

If you think improving weaker fencers is a waste of time and only benefits them, then you aren't working with them properly.

Take one of the simplest drills: Fencer A makes and attack and Fencer B dpoes a parry riposte.

What fencer B gets out of it is obvious, a chance to practice a parry and riposte.

What A gets out of it is a chance to work on practicing the lunge, the distance for the attack, the cleanest form, not telegraphing.

Of course, if you are perfect in all of those things every time, then I look forward to the day that I can humbly approach you and ask to lovingly stroke the multitudinous medals hanging from your neck in hopes a little of that perfection will rub off.

RoninX · 03-01-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenTheEMOP

I
What A gets out of it is a chance to work on practicing the lunge, the distance for the attack, the cleanest form, not telegraphing.

This is absolutely true, I've seen some of the ugliest laziest attacks and lunge preformed on the "other" side of drills. Not only people wadting their own time when they do this but why would I or anybody else need how to parry an "attack" that has no hope of hitting?

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 03-01-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Remember that this cuts both ways.

If you are surrounded by fencers who are stronger/better than you, guess what that makes you...

Yep.

The salle dummy?

RITFencing · 03-01-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

The salle dummy?

That no one wants to fence because it isn't worth their time.

rcmatthews · 03-01-2006, 05:18 PM

I, as a C, would much rather be the club scrub among a bunch of As and Bs because it benefits me more. Granted there is much less of a benefit for an A in fencing me. I don't really want to be at a club with a bunch of Ds and Es. The benefit to me is much less.

KD5MDK · 03-01-2006, 05:33 PM

But they're not going to want you.

keith · 03-01-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

But they're not going to want you.

depends entirely on what type of scrub/muppet/etc one is.

In my experience if you are working at drilling and training hard the top tier of fencers are willing to fence you on the basis that they recognise where they once where.

Being an improving muppet with a work ethic and a willingness to fence with the other muppets normally gets you encouragement and bouts with the better fencers.

The attitude you bring with you counts for alot.

RoninX · 03-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

depends entirely on what type of scrub/muppet/etc one is.
The attitude you bring with you counts for alot.

Exactly, which is why if you ONLY want to fence As and Bs if you are a C and ignore or mock D,E, U fencers then why in the world would the As and Bs fence you?

keith · 03-01-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poulet

Once you're an A, everything below a B looks the same.

yeah and once you've made a world cup final the As are the muppets.

edit: oops the poor Poulet deleted to slowly

rcmatthews · 03-01-2006, 07:06 PM

I think you guys are missing the point. If I had a bunch of As to fence with all the time, it would be an ideal situation. And youre right, they might not want me. But that doesnt matter. Im not talking about reality.

Mr Epee · 03-01-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcmatthews

But that doesnt matter. Im not talking about reality.

Then why are you wasting everyone's time?

There are plenty of fantasy portals on this here internet thingy.

hpfencing · 03-01-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

The important part about good training partners is you need people who can seeyour weaknesses and mistakes and exploit them. If nobody can make you suffer for telegraphing your fleche, or that raising your arm during the attack, it will take you a lot longer to fix it.

or even worse, you cold go to an event thinking you are good at a fleche and then get beat because it worked at teh club but you couldn't get it to work at the event because everyone esle saw the weakness.

Overconfidence... It's hard to spar well if you don't have someone to challenge you or if you have someone that is too far above your level.

veeco · 03-01-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenTheEMOP

Also, just because a person is worse than you doesn't mean they can spot something you are doing wrong. Just because I can't land a point on the guys who are better than me doesn't mean that I can point out something after a bout that a fencer better than me could exploit.

That is true for someone, like you, who is "in the middle", but for someone who is "in the bottom" it's not true.

Basically, to a certain extent, there are 2 reasons why Es, and Us are Es and Us
: because you just started out and don't know how to understand an action or recognize a fault in someone's action, or because being good at fencing just isn't for you and you don't know how to understand an action or recognize flaws in someone's action.

In both cases, they cannot point out what you're doing wrong in a drill.

rcmatthews · 03-01-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Then why are you wasting everyone's time?

There are plenty of fantasy portals on this here internet thingy.

I guess for the same reason you came in here and posted that.

RoninX · 03-01-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veeco

Basically, to a certain extent, there are 2 reasons why Es, and Us are Es and Us
: because you just started out and don't know how to understand an action or recognize a fault in someone's action, or because being good at fencing just isn't for you and you don't know how to understand an action or recognize flaws in someone's action.
.

Well, that or they don't or can't fence USFA events. I knew many college fencers at the C-D level that were Unranked by the USFA. I also have known several people whose finances/small children/schedule/lack of tourneys in their area etc. simply kept them from earning the rank that they really fence at.

Lets just remember that before we paint all E and U fencers with the same brush...

...what rank am I you ask?

hpfencing · 03-02-2006, 10:16 AM

Some of us have NO time for pracitce outside of giving lessons ourselves. I find that on years I have mostly beginner fencers where my coaching action are bigger that my fencing suffers. When I have higher level students I get more on my game.

This is one of the reasons in is VERY hard to fence and coach and why I have struggled with that issue for quite a while.

counterattack · 03-03-2006, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoninX

Well, that or they don't or can't fence USFA events. I knew many college fencers at the C-D level that were Unranked by the USFA.

Yeah, I don't think people realy ask to see a USFA card for proof of ranking, they were just saying "E and U fencers" to mean "bad fencers", even though there are people who have ratings that aren't accurate. Anyway, my input is:

I have changed clubs several times in the last few years as my fencing grew. I feel bad leaving a club, but I am getting older and want to see what I can do at Div I before I have kids, and inevitably have to fence less.

But even at the new clubs I do fence the "muppets" (I love that term), a few a night. I appreciate that they need competition too. But only once each, and not all of them on any night. I have to save time for the really tough fencers who puh me. But even the worse fencers help me practice keeping loose and being able to deal with the very random actions they make. At tourneys I often fence fencers who do things I haven't seen at any club I have fenced at, and practice against the unpredictable can come into play. That said, though, if there was always another good fencer ready to fence each time I was up to the strip, I don't think I would fence the worse fencers as much. If you hope to be competitive, you have to make the most of your limited practice time.

The Poopsmith · 03-03-2006, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by counterattack

But even at the new clubs I do fence the "muppets" (I love that term), a few a night.

What happened to using the term "scrub" for people who basically can't fence?

Gav · 03-03-2006, 07:12 AM

We also call them "bunnys" in the UK.

rory · 03-03-2006, 11:07 AM

Muppets is what we mostly call them in the UK. Or bunnies/losers/nobodies/randoms.
Scrubs is never used here.

And to beat someone 5-0 (or 15-0) is to "granny" them. Thus to lose 5-0 is to get "grannied". Calls from the crowd at 4-0 of "the granny's on!" are sometimes heard.