Cottage industry in fencing instructors?

[jjefferies]

Perusing the New York Times today, tuesday 21 Feb 2006, on page C12 I ran across an article on "A long Island Solution to Far East Stress". Article is a piece on asian family immigration from china and korea to settle in Great Neck, N.Y. Gist of the piece is that these are upper middle class families immigrating to escape not political, poverty or religious pressures but unrelenting school pressures on their childrn. The claim is that while the Great Neck schools are among the top in the US they are a great deal less pressured than the ones their children are "fleeing?".

Anyway the part of the article that caught my eye was:
"To some observers, it is ironic that in fleeing such intensity the newcomers have landed in Great Neck, where there is as competitive a school environment as exists anywhere in the United States. Great Neck is known for its own cram schools. S.A.T. tutoring begins for some in the seventh grade. There is a cottage industry of piano teachers, fencing instructors, writing coaches and tutors who specialize not in remedial foreign language study but in the perfection of accent and idiom."

Fencing instruction as a cottage industry. Great! This should be passed on to coaches college for anyone looking to start their own salle. Being asian might be an added advantage.

[foilz]

You are right, fencing coaching is a cottage industry.

Look around the sport, and you will find refugees, immigrants, and assorted others from virtually every continent, born elsewhere, now here, now teaching fencing.

In clubs across the country, NE, SE, SW, MW, W ...

It's been this way for a long time.

They have taught Olympians, they teach Olympians, and now they teach the rest of us.

Living and teaching fencing in this great country has to be a lot better (in virtually every way) than what many of these coaches have been used to -- in their professional careers, in their lives, and for their families.

Except many of them undoubtedly miss an environment more focused on fencing (in schools and colleges) than ours. Perhaps we can change that.

We love our coaches.

But let us also welcome coaches from everywhere, and encourage more!

[Dax]

Think about it this way, take all of the russian coaches for example. Now, how many fencers do you think are in russia right now? 500? Maybe 1000? There are a lot of these coaches that grew up fencing and coaching is all they know. There aren't enough fencers to coach in russia, so they come here where there are maybe 100,000 fencers or more.

[_fence(1)]

Originally Posted by Dax

Think about it this way, take all of the russian coaches for example. Now, how many fencers do you think are in russia right now? 500? Maybe 1000? There are a lot of these coaches that grew up fencing and coaching is all they know. There aren't enough fencers to coach in russia, so they come here where there are maybe 100,000 fencers or more.

As far as I understand, there are no fencing clubs or recreational fencing in Russia. There are sports schools/clubs for kids. But if you are in your 30+, there is no place where you can go and fence, unless you are Pozdnyakov

[KD5MDK]

That sounds decidedly odd. What do all the people who graduate with Fencing Instruction degrees do besides emigrate then?

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by _fence(1)

As far as I understand, there are no fencing clubs or recreational fencing in Russia. There are sports schools/clubs for kids. But if you are in your 30+, there is no place where you can go and fence, unless you are Pozdnyakov

Geeze, that sounds dire. What would a 50+ year old do? Now that I think of it I don't remember any Russian at the vets world championships when I went. There was Kaz, UKR but no Russ. I'll have to ask my coach about this. He trained in the Ukraine I believe.

[Epee Scherma]

Originally Posted by _fence(1)

As far as I understand, there are no fencing clubs or recreational fencing in Russia. There are sports schools/clubs for kids. But if you are in your 30+, there is no place where you can go and fence, unless you are Pozdnyakov

If there were no fencing or recreation fencing clubs in Russia, than how did Kolobkov or Poz ever learn about fencing in the first place? What about all those Tyschler fencing videos? Of course there is fencing activities in Russia!

Federation d'Escrime de Russie
Loujnetskaia Naberejnaia, 8
119871 MOSCOU
Phone :
Fax :
E-mail :
+7 495 725 46 69 / +7 495 999 10 08
+7 495 637 04 30
escrimerus@roc.ru

Ask 'em yourself!

[_fence(1)]

Fencing shools - yes.
Fencing clubs - no.

Epee Scherma, I'm not debating that there are places (fencing schools) where young kids can go and learn fencing. They have many of them. This is how Pozdnyakov and all those great Russian fencers started.

What I'm saying is that there are no places for people in their 30,40,50+ who either fenced when they were young or never fenced at all.

Do you see my point?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

As far as I understand, Kolobkov and Poz started in the government sports programs. The great thing about these other countries is that alot of times, you don't have 40 year old women starting out and watering down the training quality. Mind you, occasionally you get someone who starts out later in life (like peach, for instance) and actually gets to an A level eventually, but most of the time, when a fencer starts out late, they stay at the bottom of the sport.

[oso97]

DFP, I won't even bother to take the time to illuminate the number of ways you are wrong, but you are truely being an idiot this time.

[Fencergrl]

I know he's so young and silly he really waters down what it means to be a really effective troll.

LOL... How's your "A" coming DFP??? I guess you'll get it.... eventually!

[Durando]

Originally Posted by oso97

DFP, I won't even bother to take the time to illuminate the number of ways you are wrong, but you are truely being an idiot this time.

Yep. Go tell it to Ray Sexton. If you can catch him between marathons. As DFP will presently find out, people go away from the sport because life gets really complicated. Probably even moreso in places like Russia. My MdA in Chicago Boris Lukomsky won a handful of world cups before the Soviets decided to toss everyone over twenty five years old out of the fencing program. Since BL was in the army at the time, that kind of sucked.

Interesting observations about the Russians, however. Does anybody have any first hand experience in Russian FCs?

Okay. I stop now.

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by _fence(1)

Fencing shools - yes.
Fencing clubs - no.

Epee Scherma, I'm not debating that there are places (fencing schools) where young kids can go and learn fencing. They have many of them. This is how Pozdnyakov and all those great Russian fencers started.

What I'm saying is that there are no places for people in their 30,40,50+ who either fenced when they were young or never fenced at all.

Do you see my point?

The point is you're wrong.

A fencing.net member recently posted a link to photos of his/her club in Russia:

http://club.fencing.ru/cntnt/index_eng.html

In Russia starting fencing when older may not be as common or popular as it is in other countries, but saying that "there are no places" it can be done is proveably wrong.

[_fence(1)]

Originally Posted by fencerX

The point is you're wrong.

A fencing.net member recently posted a link to photos of his/her club in Russia:

http://club.fencing.ru/cntnt/index_eng.html

In Russia starting fencing when older may not be as common or popular as it is in other countries, but saying that "there are no places" it can be done is proveably wrong.

Ok, I was wrong. There is one club in Moscow. Cool.

[_fence(1)]

On the other side,

http://centralflfencing.com/wvc2005/Men_Epee_60_000.htm

second place in 2005 Veterans WC, Men's Epee:

Gary AFTANDILOV, RUS

[Morion]

Originally Posted by Durando

Yep. Go tell it to Ray Sexton. If you can catch him between marathons.

Who is this Ray Sexton? It looks like I might get a chance to fence him this May in Phoenix.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Durando

people go away from the sport because life gets really complicated.

Grad school

[rcmatthews]

In Soviet Russia, club fence you.

[striker]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

Fencing instruction as a cottage industry. Great! This should
be passed on to coaches college for anyone looking to start their own
salle. Being asian might be an added advantage.

I think at some point in the future USFA may institute standards for who
can or can not open a USFA affiliate salle. Maybe at this stage they feel it is
counter productive to put these limitations in place. Actually I think the
USFA coaching college is determined to train as many fencing instructors
as it can. I think they even have a new fencing certificate class this
season targeted at any physical eduction instructor in any sport.

I see more fencing instructors these days who would like to augment
their real world fencing experience with an official fencing pedagogy certificate. Take Michael Marx as an example. He was many times US foil champion. He eventually went to Poland and augmented what he knew with pedagogy skills.I also know a fencing instructor in my area (San Francisco Bay Area) who privately aknowledged that in the long run, the lack of
a formal fencing pedagogy certificate has limited his teaching opportunities.

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

As far as I understand, Kolobkov and Poz started in the government sports programs. The great thing about these other countries is that alot of times, you don't have 40 year old women starting out and watering down the training quality. Mind you, occasionally you get someone who starts out later in life (like peach, for instance) and actually gets to an A level eventually, but most of the time, when a fencer starts out late, they stay at the bottom of the sport.

Here is my 2 cents on this subject. This is just my personal observation and I have no intention of starting another flame thread.

This is one of those touchy subjects in fencing that nobody likes
to talk about. Although I disagree with DFP's statements I must say
that the feelings he is expressing in his post are somewhat prevalent
in some fencing clubs.

Some younger fencers look down on the older fencers. They
even try to avoid older fencers when it comes to open bouting.
What is sad about this whole affair is that some (not all) of the
"fencing instructors" have more or less the same attitude towards older
fencers. They spend most of their resources on cultivating the younger
ones. They even do not bother to provide a minimal environment where
the older fencer can learn and grow. You see the older fencers join a
beginning class and then completely disappear in the next class. It does
not have to be this way.

In my area, I have seen older fencers (specially in Epee)
who are able to win against much younger fencers in open tournaments.
An older fencer given enough time, direction, and in the right environment
may not be a match against every talented younger fencer but those who stick with it for the long haul, learn , and grow can put up one hell of a
good fight.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Morion

Who is this Ray Sexton? It looks like I might get a chance to fence him this May in Phoenix.

An unpleasant man who bears a striking resemblance to a toad.

I kid.