Bodycord Problem

[FreakBurrito]

Hi I'm new to the forums, and relatively new to Fencing, Just started this past September at UNH.

Due to general Laziness of the club, I've become the defacto repairer of all the foil body cords.

The problem is that there is a whole spat of cords that are not working corretly, and giving me bizare behavior.

These cords all pass simple continuity tests. Just to make sure I'm doing this right, the B line in the middle pin on the reel side, and the small pin on the 2 prong connector. The C - line is the one with the largest gap on the reel side, and the large pin on the connector, and the A-line has the smaller gap on the reel side, and goes to the lame clip.

The weird behavior is that if you plug the cord into the machine, without a weapon, they continously register off target as they should. If you plug them in to a weapon the off target light goes off, like normal, however when you try to depress the tip, no lights turn on at all. Regardless weather it's ontarget or off target. Sometimes it'll work, but very sporadically. I know it's the cords because this has happened with several weapons that all work with other bodycords. If it makes a differance these cords are all from Absolute Fencing, and have been problematic from day one.

I know I'm not totally screwing sometihing up as i can fix cords and have them work correctly, and I think that some of the cords are ones that i've never touched. If anyone has some ideas on how to fix them, I'd greatly appreciate it.


Thanks

Brian

[Purple Fencer]

You've got the a, b, and c line layout correct. BTW...welcome to the world of armory!!

Several things to check if you haven't already done so...

Are the screws tight in the pins?

Are there any breaks in the wire? They tend to happen where the wire emerges from the protective cover (if it's a hard bodied type). You may get good continuity on a test box or ohmmeter....take the cord apart, grab the cord about 6 inches back, and pull on the base of the pin (Use a pair of pliers to save your fingers). If there's a break, you'll notice the wire starting to separate almost immediately.

Are the little cages on the pins shushed down? if they don't expand all the way, they can cause a loose connection in the socket, which leads to white lights (part of the reason I went with solid, angles pins in my body cords....check out the American Cord trhread in this section)

Let us know!

[SJCFU#2]

If you aren't getting any lights when you press the tip of the weapon then there must be a short somewhere that is allowing current to flow even when the normally-closed circuit is broken at the tip.

Assuming that the weapon isn't the problem, look closely at how the pins fit in the socket. Make sure the B pin from the body cord isn't contacting the guard or bracket when it is plugged in.

The other thing to do is look very carefully at the body cords where they enter the hard shell of the plug (as Purple Fencer said, this is the area where body cords with hard shell plugs fail most often). If the insulation is breaking down but the wires themselves haven't failed it is possible that as you twist the wires plugging in the weapon you are shorting them together, creating a short that bypasses the weapon.

[keropie]

Particularly if you can almost never get a touch it sounds like you have a fairly well shorted circuit. Check for continuity across b and c (i.e., middle pin of reel side to large pin of socket side and vice versa) and make sure that you DON'T have continuity. If you do, there's your problem, look for obvious shorts (in head or reel side assembly or the wire near those) and if you can find any, I'd just scrap the wire and buy some more and rebuild. Also, checking the socket to make sure neither pin is making contact to the guard is a good call.

[mrbiggs]

AH!

My coach and I have been having the same problem with these cords (Absolute)! I haven't posted about it because I've been determined (for several months now) to fix it for myself.

Check this out--take off the retaining clip that holds the body cord onto the blade, and retest it. It works fine for me after this. Or, easier, just don't plug the body cord in all the way.

I've tried taping the clip, which doesn't help. What I have done that helps is put a piece of paper in between the prongs and the socket. Like the clip removal idea, this is not legal for competition, and is therefore only a temporary solution.

[Purple Fencer]

The clip should not be an issue normally....it's totally isolated from any contact with the circuit.

[mrbiggs]

The clip should not be an issue normally....it's totally isolated from any contact with the circuit.

Yep.

Thus the confusion on my part.

[pgepps]

Is the clip overextending and contacting the nuts on the underside of the socket, or otherwise making a short on the socket, rather than the plug, side? It's been a while, but I remember having a strange clip-anomaly like this at some point.

Otherwise . . . what they said. Constant problems should be easier to track down than sporadic ones, though--be sure you cycle weapons and reels, and keep track of what does and doesn't work, to isolate the problem.

[Purple Fencer]

Is the clip overextending and contacting the nuts on the underside of the socket, or otherwise making a short on the socket, rather than the plug, side? It's been a while, but I remember having a strange clip-anomaly like this at some point.

I don't see how that could happen....a standard Uhlmann clip is fairly narrow and unable to short across the nuts, even if deformed. I suppose it COULD be possible, but anyh clip that deformed wouldn't work as designed anyway.

[DangerMouse]

Check inside the weapon end of the body cord to make sure there is no exposed wire contacting the screw that holds the clip in place. The screw could be the conductive bridge between the two wires.

[mrbiggs]

Check inside the weapon end of the body cord to make sure there is no exposed wire contacting the screw that holds the clip in place. The screw could be the conductive bridge between the two wires.

I haven't actually checked this, but I'm fairly sure it's unlikely.

I had two theories about how it was happening:

the first was like pgepps put it, the clip was contacting both sockets. unfortunately, this didn't appear to be actually happening.

the second was that the clip was connecting only the B-line socket. But, the higher part of the clip was connected to the socket itself, grounding it out.


I've got evidence for and against both theories. I think I'll take out the parts and see if I can take another stab at the problem next week. Thanks for all your suggestions.

[telkanuru]

Hi I'm new to the forums, and relatively new to Fencing, Just started this past September at UNH.

Due to general Laziness of the club, I've become the defacto repairer of all the foil body cords.

The problem is that there is a whole spat of cords that are not working corretly, and giving me bizare behavior.

These cords all pass simple continuity tests. Just to make sure I'm doing this right, the B line in the middle pin on the reel side, and the small pin on the 2 prong connector. The C - line is the one with the largest gap on the reel side, and the large pin on the connector, and the A-line has the smaller gap on the reel side, and goes to the lame clip.

The weird behavior is that if you plug the cord into the machine, without a weapon, they continously register off target as they should. If you plug them in to a weapon the off target light goes off, like normal, however when you try to depress the tip, no lights turn on at all. Regardless weather it's ontarget or off target. Sometimes it'll work, but very sporadically. I know it's the cords because this has happened with several weapons that all work with other bodycords. If it makes a differance these cords are all from Absolute Fencing, and have been problematic from day one.

I know I'm not totally screwing sometihing up as i can fix cords and have them work correctly, and I think that some of the cords are ones that i've never touched. If anyone has some ideas on how to fix them, I'd greatly appreciate it.


Thanks

Brian

Oh. You. I failed your cords at the NFC, I'm sure.

you have a break somewhere that is causing your B and C wires to intermittantly connect.

When all else fails, take it all apart and put it back togeather.

[KD5MDK]

Wire is cheap. At the very worst, replace with new wire.

[Purple Fencer]

Wire is cheap. At the very worst, replace with new wire.

And if you wanna go that way, talk to me...I've got several foil and epee cords where the finishing of the blocks wasn't done well, so the connections weren't reliable enlough to put them out for sale as completed cords.

A line is 3 feet long on the foil/sabre cords...both foil/sabrem and epee cords are 6 feet long.

Talk to me.

[FreakBurrito]

Oh. You. I failed your cords at the NFC, I'm sure.

NFC = National Fencing Championships???

Ummm No, I haven't Fenced at nationals Yet.

Anyways, the problem is being very intermintent. We were haivng the problems with 4 cords, then 3 fixed themselves. However I tested the bad one in sabre, and it worked perfectly. I think it's some weird combination of Floor Cords, Reels and Boxes that makes them more suspectable to the issue.

Every time I've been fixing the cords I'm taking care to leave just enough wire to go in the pin and that's it, so I'm reasonably confident there isn't any wire strands sticking out. Next time I see one I'll check the clip.

I think these absolute cords were either Put together with the without tightning the screws properly, or the pins and wires just don't want to stay together.

Thanks for all the help.

[fatfencer]

Hi I'm new to the forums, and relatively new to Fencing, Just started this past September at UNH.

Due to general Laziness of the club, I've become the defacto repairer of all the foil body cords.

The problem is that there is a whole spat of cords that are not working corretly, and giving me bizare behavior.

Actually the real problem would be that these are Uhlmann/German/Chinese 2 prong things. If you must use or repair 2 prong then mayhaps I can point you to Sam Signorelli's new foil/epee cords which go a loooooooong way to getting rid of Uhlmann-itis....there is no cure for Uhlmann-itis. It's like herpes except there is no Valtrex for Uhlmann-itis.

I too have Uhlmann-itis. 13 of them. Honestly. Hell I'll bring them to the next NAC and DONATE them gratis to you. I keep catching myself thinking that I'll just use them for spare parts and get some of the money I spent on them back. This is wrong thinking.

Fatfencer

BTW: It does make a difference that they are from Absolute. Chinese knockoffs of German Engineering are about the ONLY thing I can think of that is WORSE than German Engineering.

[KD5MDK]

The N in NFC is almost certainly New England or Northeast.

fatfencer, if you're so dedicated to getting rid of your body cords, I'll take them off your hands at Reno.

[FreakBurrito]

Well I'm most certain that It couldn't have been me as New Englands were fenced Sunday and the post was made before then. I've also never fenced anything but the collegiate tournamates.

I know at the Big One at Smith, about half of our cords failed. due to extensive testing and repairing we only failed one while getting them tested, and only two broke (one by our Deliquent Foil Child, who also managed to break a real and I think she broke someone else's weapons, of course I don't me shen intentioanlly did this). She managed to rip the connector off at the wires. One also became loose at the JV competition, when I was fencing. Got to take a look at those sometime.

I'd love to buy the new bodycords, but I'm on an extremely limited budget, and I need to buy my own Eletricial Equipment soon.

[prototoast]

The N in NFC is almost certainly New England or Northeast.

fatfencer, if you're so dedicated to getting rid of your body cords, I'll take them off your hands at Reno.

NFC=northeast fencing conference. BU, BC, Brown, Brandeis, Dartmouth, MIT, UMass, SMith, Tufts, Wellesley, UNH... maybe one or two more I'm forgetting. Dual meet format.

[Purple Fencer]

I'd love to buy the new bodycords, but I'm on an extremely limited budget, and I need to buy my own Eletricial Equipment soon.

And I'm almost out of the foil cords anyway....won't be doing a new production run until I get mroe feedback from armorers who I sent it to and we test the redesign of the block....PLUS I came up with an idea to eliminate the irritating tendancy of Uhlmann clips to come undone...Mergs fine tuned it and I'll probably start looking into it after he gets the drawings done.