Guess the armory problem

[mrbiggs]

I was directing a (low-level) bout today and saw a new foil equipment problem I hadn't seen before. It's pretty straightforward, but I think it's fun, so:

Two fencers hook up. Both had already fenced before, with all their equipment working, and had not changed blades or body cords. But when they tested, two off-target lights appeared.

There was only 1 thing wrong. (The answer is not "Their alligator lines both broke while they were sitting")


What's wrong?

[Frater_Frag]

Was the machine perhaps reset to epee?

[mrbiggs]

Was the machine perhaps reset to epee?

Nope. On epee, you don't get off-target lights.

[DHCJr]

That is too easy. Of course, as you said there is no white-light in Epee, but there is in Sabre. The circuitry in Sabre is the opposite of Foil. The 'power' comes from the C line. It is just like having your bodycord B and C line reversed.

The machine was in Sabre.

[mrbiggs]

That is too easy. Of course, as you said there is no white-light in Epee, but there is in Sabre. The circuitry in Sabre is the opposite of Foil. The 'power' comes from the C line. It is just like having your bodycord B and C line reversed.

The machine was in Sabre.

I'm sorry for not eliminating this answer sooner, as I didn't know it existed. But this isn't what happened.

The error was not in the scoring machine--in a weapons setting, or in a machine failure.

[esskreemr]

Were they fencing on Triplette machines?

[mrbiggs]

Were they fencing on Triplette machines?

Haha, no. Always a good question though, isn't it...

[HDG]

Did they miss each others' lamés?

[mrbiggs]

Did they miss each others' lamés?

Nope

(that counts as 2 things wrong, as each missed the other)

this is taking longer than I thought, so I'll give rep to whoever gets it.

[twisterfencing]

Just a stab in the dark.

When they were testing, did both of the tips hit each other at the same time?

[mrbiggs]

Just a stab in the dark.

When they were testing, did both of the tips hit each other at the same time?

No.

Neither fencer hit anything other than the lamé.

[KD5MDK]

Were their guards in contact with their lames when they touched? Boxes are supposed to account for that, but who knows.

[WhipLash]

they both hit the zippers on the lames?

[larkmaj]

That is too easy. Of course, as you said there is no white-light in Epee, but there is in Sabre. The circuitry in Sabre is the opposite of Foil. The 'power' comes from the C line. It is just like having your bodycord B and C line reversed.

The machine was in Sabre.

actually i think if this was the case then you would still get 2 colored lights. when the blade is not depressed it can basically work like a sabre so as soon as the tip touches the lame the box will register the touch. I'm not sure if it would also show a white light since directly afterward the connection between b and c breaks.

[DHCJr]

actually i think if this was the case then you would still get 2 colored lights. when the blade is not depressed it can basically work like a sabre so as soon as the tip touches the lame the box will register the touch. I'm not sure if it would also show a white light since directly afterward the connection between b and c breaks.

The trouble is there is no contact. Try this have the machine on Foil, hold the side of the blade to lame', which puts the C line directly in contact and the B in contact through the tip. Press down on the tip; White light.

Sabre as I said is just like hitting with the side of the blade.

[mrbiggs]

Were their guards in contact with their lames when they touched? Boxes are supposed to account for that, but who knows.

That grounds it out completely, doesn't make off-targets. It was a new box, anyway, one of the two-light SGs, with the new timings. Completely functional.

Repeated testing on the lamés kept getting off-target lights--so no zipper, off the lamé, grounded to the lamé, etc.

Hint: This was a fairly inexperienced fencer.

I'll post another hint tomorrow if no one gets the correct answer.

[larkmaj]

The trouble is there is no contact. Try this have the machine on Foil, hold the side of the blade to lame', which puts the C line directly in contact and the B in contact through the tip. Press down on the tip; White light.

Sabre as I said is just like hitting with the side of the blade.

i'm talking about your comment of having the box set for sabre, not foil

[mrbiggs]

i'm talking about your comment of having the box set for sabre, not foil

So is he...

basically, when it's set on sabre, rather than having the electrical line that says whether or not it hit on the lamé running down the wire, it runs down the entire blade. Because there's tape on the blade, if you hit your opponent when the box is on sabre, the circuit is broken so the foil registers an off-target, but because the blade is not in contact with the lamé (equivalent to the wire being in contact when the box is on foil), it will register as off-target.

Is that better?

[DHCJr]

i'm talking about your comment of having the box set for sabre, not foil

Exactly! When the box is set for Sabre, the C line is power. It is just like hitting with the side of the blade set for Foil. When I stated when set to Sabre, the C line is the power. Since you appeared to not understand that, I was giving a different analogy. I didn't think saying the same thing over would have changed anything.

Try it in Sabre and you will see.

[larkmaj]

Exactly! When the box is set for Sabre, the C line is power. It is just like hitting with the side of the blade set for Foil. When I stated when set to Sabre, the C line is the power. Since you appeared to not understand that, I was giving a different analogy. I didn't think saying the same thing over would have changed anything.

Try it in Sabre and you will see.

yes, but when the tip is not depressed it is also connected to the c line so when it comes in contact with the lame on a sabre setting the instant before it is depressed there is a connection between the c line and the lame so i would think this would register as a colored light unless there is something in the programming that would cancel that should the b and c connection be broken right after the c and opponents a come in contact.

as for Mr. Biggs' riddle, i have no idea how one problem could yield a double white light in such a situation