Reel Problem

[jjefferies]

I'm refurbishing a pair of Leon Paul reels for our club. It's a cast off from .. well elsewhere. I've gotten them fairly well back in order at the cost of more hours than I think it's worth. But I'm down to checking for continuity and running into a problem with cross connection between lines on one of the pair. When I first measured it I had no cross connectivity between the lines. Measured it for continuous connection when the cable was pulled out to its maximum, i.e. it would go 20+ohms and bounce around up to 100+ as I pulled the cable out (measuring with a FLUKE multi-meter). But my problem now is that I'm seeing a short in all three lines at very high ohmage, 20-100+ megohms. At first I could see this this only if I twisted a lot at the fencer's connection (Uhlmann connector). So I trimmed off a foot thinking that it was probably a crossed wire that was sawing through the insulating plastic. Resoldered the connector and it seemed at first that the problem was fixed. I checked the discarded wire but could only find one possible skinned wire that could be at fault. Nothing that would suggest all three were compromised. The wire by the way is Leon Paul's own replacement wire and no more than a year old. I had repaired the reel for the previous owners which is why I was willing to try and refurbish it. There were eight uhlmann snail types that I just had to regard as too far worn to be worth trying to salvage.

But now I'm still seeing this very high ohmage connection between the wires. Thought at first that I might be seeing my own hand's resistance as though I were touching the wires somewhere. Not the problem. And it will disappear for a while until I start pulling on the cable or causing it to twist. This is on one of the set of reels.

Question: is it possible that the cable wire has been turned enough times that the wires are being tightly pressed together by the twisting to cause a very high ohmage reading? I have noticed as I was working with the reel that the cable did appear to have been twisted a bit more than I think it should be the case. As I mentioned this cable is fairly new and from the manufacturer though the conducting wires to appear to be more frail and the insulation thinner than I would have thought desirable even for a reel.

Other suggestions are welcome.

[ThatReallyHurt]

I don't know how reels work, but if you've got it stretched out, the wires are going to act like a big antenna and there will be small voltages sitting on the individual lines. Those voltages can give false readings on an ohmmeter.

[yeoldearmourer]

Check the commuter the brass ring inside the reel where all 3 leads makes the contacts wre riding on the brass rins and make sure they are clean.

[Mergs]

Also, because as you stated in the beginning, the wires may be pretty old and there may be some oxidation or breakage of the wires throughout the cord. Check the resistance along the wire.

*Neat Trick* - take a straight pin and stick it through the wire and use it to test between that point and the end of the wire to isolate the high resistance/break point.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by Yeoldearmorer

Check the commuter the brass ring inside the reel where all 3 leads makes the contacts wre riding on the brass rins and make sure they are clean.

I cleaned the commutator as part of refurbishing the reels. And I checked that contacts are not touching each other but are riding the correct slip ring. Also as I took out the spring contacts and still had the problem So I doubt it's the commuter.

Originally Posted by Mergs

Also, because as you stated in the beginning, the wires may be pretty old and there may be some oxidation or breakage of the wires throughout the cord. Check the resistance along the wire.

*Neat Trick* - take a straight pin and stick it through the wire and use it to test between that point and the end of the wire to isolate the high resistance/break point.

Actually I said the wires are fairly new. And as to sticking a pin in you have to go through two layers of insulation including the outside sheath and it's rather easy to nick the insullation of two of the wires inside the outer sheath which would create the problem I'm trying to fix. Not to mention that I'm real loathe to make potential breaks in that outside sheath which is one scenario of how reel cables fail.

As far as the wires acting like antenna, it's ohmage I'm measuring not voltage or amperage. More importantly the other reel isn't exhibiting the same symptoms. Go figure. Somehow the three wires must be creasing each other.

Still thanks for the comments.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

There were eight uhlmann snail types that I just had to regard as too far worn to be worth trying to salvage.

Hard for me to believe since every single part is replaceable.

I am still doing maintenance for MIT and Brandeis on reels from the Los Angeles Olympics.

I would much rather invest time and spare parts on Uhlmanns than on LPs.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Hard for me to believe since every single part is replaceable.

I am still doing maintenance for MIT and Brandeis on reels from the Los Angeles Olympics.

I would much rather invest time and spare parts on Uhlmanns than on LPs.

You'd have to see them to make the relative judgement. But the LP's are in better shape internally with springs, spring cases, commutators etc. I've done a fair amount of work on the Uhlmans and the LP's are easier to work on. So in this particular instance I'm doing the LP's. Another time and different reels my call might e different..

BTW, which Los Angeles Olympic. These Uhlmann reels are way older than the last Las Angeles Olympics and have been used like it.
j

[fencerbill]

1984. The Uhlmann turtles were rather new then. Older Uhlmanns look more like LPs.

[yeoldearmourer]

Check for cold solider jointthat juse high res

[DHCJr]

Besides the commutator brass rings there is another two places you might check. Take of the commutator completely and see if there is any high resistence between the line. I have seen some of the older ones start to get dialectric.

The second area is where you solder the wire. The area is close together and gets dirty.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Besides the commutator brass rings there is another two places you might check. Take of the commutator completely and see if there is any high resistence between the line. I have seen some of the older ones start to get dialectric.

The second area is where you solder the wire. The area is close together and gets dirty.

Yes. This is what I was going to suggest. If you remove the commutator and test for short (ohmage from line to line and it's still there, bad wire. If the ohmage disappears, it's the commutator with the problem Donald mentioned. I saw this plenty when our division was full of these reels.