chest protector

[jeff]

Good points (no pun intended). I've had conversations that are consistent with what you said about 'really annoying' - the fencers who make body movements to increase the likelihood of the point bouncing off. Kind of a blind spot on my point, since that had never occurred to me.

What, you want controlled experiments before they change the mechanism that records touches? Such a dreamer!

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by jeff

What, you want controlled experiments before they change the mechanism that records touches? Such a dreamer!

Can't have that - next thing you know people will be expecting the FIE leadership to listen to recommendations from their own technical experts.

[Patterson]

That microbreak idea is interesting indeed. Are they thinking of changing the times for epee?

[PiratePeter]

Hi all, I'm new to these forums and the sport.

So last night at practice, I had a question that I was to embarrassed to ask my teammates. While fencing epee, my partner stabbed me pretty hard right below the rib cage and just above the diaphragm. Which lead me to think ... has anyone every punctured a heart in the sport before?

The only reason i ask is because the xiphoid process is right there, prime target for any foilist and the occasional epeeist.

Now, the xiphoid process is a tiny, hard piece of cartiledge that juts out from right below your sternum, and if ever broken inwards, goes directly into the heart.

Does the FIE cloth and lame redistribute enough energy from the tips of our weapons so as to reduce the probablity of breaking that piece of cartiledge off?

Thanks

[bezoar]

The diaphram actually rides up higher in the ribcage than you realize. An ijury to the xiphoid that would displace it inward (like in improperly performed CPR) would damage the liver. I've never seen that in 18 years as a paramedic first, then a physician.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by Redblade

Personal reason. If you want to wear protection, wear it, "machismo" and other people's opinions be damned. A simple plastic plate can help disperse a lot of energy from a weapon hit and save a few painful bruises.

Blah blah blah....I went to a fencing tournament in Orange County recently.... a "B" tournament where Jamie Douraghy had to bow out due to a bad back....anyhoooo...



Save me and Alex Gidaya, most everyone of the 30 odd foilists were wearing the damn things...the guy who won was a David M....no ad hominem intended but the guy is a skinny 'b' fencer who wears it SOLELY for the skeevage factor. Not to mention that he esquives and ducks like the dickens...its the main of his fencing really. I spose it takes timing/experience to esquive, displace target LIKE that but I don't call it fencing really. Its more of gamesmanship for his own sake. In his defense though he really has it down as an art form. I'd humbly suggest its not fencing, but hey I'm entitled.

Good on him for winning the tournament. He did take me out something like 15-9. But, honestly, if he and the multitude of people like him didn't wear those things then they'd never make it out of the 128.

Usual exceptions for the: infirmed; the young and talented 12 yr old who doesn't want to get skewered by an older, overly excited, just wanna win adult fencer( read : me :-) ); and the aged; people shouldn't wear the dodgy things.

I tell you though. If I go to the reno nac and figure out that people are wearing these things then I will to.... if only to even out the score.

I hate these things and they should be, if not banned, at least altered to make them more sticky so that they actually help resist slippage.

Fatfencer

[fatfencer]

PS: women in all weapons should, and rightfully so, wear chest protectors. It probably didn't need to be said but hey it's Valentine's Day and they deserve to be remembered. :-)

FatZorro
(probably more like a Sgt. Garcia)

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

PS: women in all weapons should, and rightfully so, wear chest protectors. It probably didn't need to be said but hey it's Valentine's Day and they deserve to be remembered. :-)

Well what can I say..? Thank you for thinking of my boobs!

[Captain Hook]

i have a chest protector but only rarely wear it against regular opponents who i know hit pretty hard in epee.

I know several coaches who wear them for additional protection when instructing

i never bother in foil

People joke about it and i go along with them, but noone ever takes it seriously enough to call me a wimp or question my manhood that would be pathetic and they know they'd just make fools of themselves.

We all know you get bashed and bruised a bit in fencing, that's just part of the sport, yet bruises are not a good thing to have and repeated long term bruising can lead to some nasty medical problems, they are an injury i don't see anything wrong with people reducing the injuries they take if they so desire.

[Morion]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

Well what can I say..? Thank you for thinking of my boobs!

We're men, we're always thinking of somebodys boobs!

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

Well what can I say..? Thank you for thinking of my boobs!

You are very welcome. I promise I shall think of them daily

Fatfencer

[gatorjosh]

I wear a plastic mens chest protector during practice when I let people hit me. I dont like to wear it when bouting because it feels restrictive.

[Jvanhousen]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Save me and Alex Gidaya, most everyone of the 30 odd foilists were wearing the damn things
Fatfencer

Thanks for the heads up.
Note to self: Skip OC events.

["Fence like a Cat"]

I think safety should be everyone's primary concern in fencing when discussing Chest protectors or any other piece of gear designed to ensure a measure of protection from potential injury. I actually think they should be mandatory in all weapons for men and women; let's level the playing field. I also think wearing a cup should be mandatory; it's just sensible.

[fatfencer]

People hiding behind the facade of safety are really starting to bug me. Honestly! Mens foil... all of fencing, really has the lowest incidences of injury of any sport if i remember Dr Harmers article in AmFencing correctly.

Besides. I'm not against safety but soon after the new timings it seems most foilists have adopted using the things... coincidence? Hell no.. makes the tips bounce off. Nobody wore them under the old timings save women, the elderly, or young children.

Throughout most of competitive fencing as we know it there has been statistically so few injuries or death as to be statistically ignorable at BEST.

People are using it to gain a cheap means of competitive advantage. The illusion of safety is just that...an illusion.

To see a grown man wear something so silly. I mean really you should have been at the OC tourney I'm talking about. Grown men who wear these things so they can get a lousy touch or two against some young kid who WASN'T wearing one is just a sad sad thing. Take some viagra and get some legs and stamina.

I think chest protectors should only be allowed IF the surface has some kind of rubberized surface so as to be less slippery. well see how many people actually wear them then.


Fatfencer

[CvilleFencer]

Fatfencer, of the three deaths I can think off in fencing, all three have been in mens foil. You may also decry wearing seatbelts or using a motorcycle helmet as unmanly and cowardly but you would be just as stupid to make either of those arguments. Go without your seatbelt, helmet, fencing mask, plastron or chestplate all you want. It will eventually help clean out the gene pool for the rest of us and proves the wisdom of Mr. Darwin. However your sardonic, macho, "you are a girly man pussy if you don't agree with exactly what I do bull****" is starting to grate on the nerves.

As a coach and an epeeist I used one long before the timing change came about and I still do on occasion. If you know how to fence they don't make that much of an advantage. Certainly not more than someone who is very skinny (who ducks and esqeeves), very bony (same thing as a chest plate) or wearing an oversized lame or mask with an oversize bib. If chest plasts confered such a huge advantage as you suggest then a male fencer would never score a touch against a female fencer. There are just some people who want to whine, decry and blame instead of fixing their style. Of course we could also just fix the timings...

[fatfencer]

Ok so your an epee fencer...epees do hurt quite a bit more...but frankly you are in quite the minority for wearing it.

As for the deaths in mens foil....

Smirnov,(thru the MASK, not the chest)

Kid in Ukraine(who wasnt wearing even a jacket or plastron... porr kid using substandard equip.) Besides....With a broken blade...if they are coming hard... that plastic wont save you.

Japanese guy lately(...don't know the facts surronding his death but...)

if you can only think of 3 then mayhaps this is a safest sport there is. Think of how many millions of people fence around the world.

Lets be real ikf safety was the concern in Mens Foil then everyone would have been wearing them PRIOR to the timing change not after. but clearly that is NOT the case.

Sorry...

Fatfencer

PS: as for fencing women actually the curvature the full protectors have makes it EASIER not harder to score. If you fenced foil more regularly you'd understand why I think wearing them things is a type of cheating and promotes the type of negative gamesmanship for its own sake that doesn't belong in this sport. (Hows that for a run-on?)

Fencing is Not a sissy sport. It is the science of ARMS. you know... maitre d'armes means "master at arms". This is a sport based on the use of weaponry...even though this is a sport and as such requires safety, it does not require unfair advantage over another. nor does it allow unchivalrous, unsportsmanlike behavior. Unfortunately rulemeisters have forgotten this. Fencers seem to forget all this regularly.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Ok so your an epee fencer...epees do hurt quite a bit more...but frankly you are in quite the minority for wearing it.

As for the deaths in mens foil....

Smirnov,(thru the MASK, not the chest)

Kid in Ukraine(who wasnt wearing even a jacket or plastron... porr kid using substandard equip.) Besides....With a broken blade...if they are coming hard... that plastic wont save you.

Japanese guy lately(...don't know the facts surronding his death but...)

if you can only think of 3 then mayhaps this is a safest sport there is. Think of how many millions of people fence around the world.

Lets be real ikf safety was the concern in Mens Foil then everyone would have been wearing them PRIOR to the timing change not after. but clearly that is NOT the case.

Sorry...

Fatfencer

PS: as for fencing women actually the curvature the full protectors have makes it EASIER not harder to score. If you fenced foil more regularly you'd understand why I think wearing them things is a type of cheating and promotes the type of negative gamesmanship for its own sake that doesn't belong in this sport. (Hows that for a run-on?)

Fencing is Not a sissy sport. It is the science of ARMS. you know... maitre d'armes means "master at arms". This is a sport based on the use of weaponry...even though this is a sport and as such requires safety, it does not require unfair advantage over another. nor does it allow unchivalrous, unsportsmanlike behavior. Unfortunately rulemeisters have forgotten this. Fencers seem to forget all this regularly.

Dude, you're missing a young French foil fencer killed in the mid 90's...

Then there are the non-fatal punctures. Still serious and easily preventable, but not as newsworthy.

That said, by chance, I have actually fenced Dave M., and if you can't beat him that's your fault, not the chest protector.

Is it sad that people have to rely on something like that to win? Yeah, it is. Notice that the people who rely on such equipment aren't very good? Notice how they still lose to the good fencers?

Quit whining, practice more, and the protector will no longer matter to you.

[Jvanhousen]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Save me and Alex Gidaya, most everyone of the 30 odd foilists were wearing the damn things..
Fatfencer

Two of my team mates (SoCal div.) were at a Long Beach (Orange Coast div.) foil open last weekend and reported that this was if fact the case.
Since OC's exemplary dedication to foil safety was first brought to my attention, I'd been toying with the idea of using this trend to one's own advantage. I came up with a bold, if risky, strategy: I told my friend to compete without a chest protector. I know, I know, at face value it's pure madness, but it had the desired effect: his opponents were so rattled by the image of his internal organs jiggling on the end of their broken foils, that they couldn't bring themselves to attack. He won, earning his C06. Understand, he would never advocate others attempting this anywhere in the Orange Coast, on the contrary, he was so concerned about other’s safety, that he once actually "insisted" that his opponent change the protector to under the plastron instead of over it, to achieve an even greater degree of protection.
Would he attempt this 'stunt' again? I don't know, but maybe it only works in bastions of conservatism (http://rohrabacher.house.gov/) where they don't play fast and loose w/ safety.