Name on the Back

[jjefferies]

I'm looking through the Athlete's Handbook and the USFA "Fencing Rules" for the section defining the size of the lettering for the name on the back of a jacket/Lame. The index of "Fencing Rules" indicates that it's to be found in PC IVC which translates to nothing for me.

I'm looking for Minimum and Maximum sizes of letters. The only reference I've yet found is that the name cannot EXCEED 10 cm.

thanks

[downunder]

its 8-10cm.

The width of the letters will depend on the size of your name.

[DHCJr]

What PC means is the 'Publicity Code' at the end of the rule book. Besides the minimum and maximum above the width of the stroke of the letter 1cm - 1.5cm, the letters must be ALL caps and Dark Blue.

[WhipLash]

so the fencer's name cannot exceed 10cm? is there a minimum height? is it legal for the letters to be of different sizes?

[Zilverzmurfen]

so the fencer's name cannot exceed 10cm? is there a minimum height?

Yes, as mentioned above: minimum 8 cm's.

is it legal for the letters to be of different sizes?

I know I have seen the occasional fencer with letters of different sizes, but 99% tend to have letters of the same size.

[KD5MDK]

so the fencer's name cannot exceed 10cm? is there a minimum height? is it legal for the letters to be of different sizes?

I asked Dan Dechaine that, and his answer was "It might pass, but it could be legitimately rejected at a WC for that too".

[DHCJr]

The new M.25.3 states that all letters must be capital. Suppose you had McDONALD. Since the c is smaller it isn't a capital C. The interpretation of the rules from some more experienced than me is they must be the same size.

[fencerbill]

The new M.25.3 states that all letters must be capital. Suppose you had McDONALD. Since the c is smaller it isn't a capital C. The interpretation of the rules from some more experienced than me is they must be the same size.

McDONALD isn't the best example since the small "c" and the capital "C" have the same shape in many fonts.

The name for the explorer Vasco de Gama could be:

DE GAMA

with the "DE" 8 cm high and the "GAMA" 10 cm high and be legal according to the way the rule is written.

[DHCJr]

That is why I used it and the person I talked to did. If it is illegal for one name, it would be illegal for all names. You can see that consistency is EXTREMELY Important to the FIE. Look at the changes in M.25.3. Why should DE GAMA be able to have different sizes, while MCDONALD can not.

I will say that the FIE again has made these new rules as clear and unambiguous as always.

[WhipLash]

then again, there is nothing in the rules about all the letters having to be the same size right?

[DHCJr]

Then again, there is nothing in the rules that says taping your Foil blade 14cm would be legal, but 16cm would be illegal. But that interpretation is what is followed. This of course does not apply to USFA competitions, but if someone were to take it to a FIE competition, let us say like the Junior/Cadet Worlds in April, I know what they would say about different size letters. If MCDONALD with different size lettering is illegal, then DE GAMA would also be illegal. They will be consistent in their interpretation.

You may not have got the sarcasm is my last sentence in my previous post.

[WhipLash]

ah... understood. thanks...

[Frank Pratt]

You can't go wrong by using letters that are all the same size. If you use different sized letters, you're risking the need to have it re-done at the 11th hour.

[jjefferies]

What PC means is the 'Publicity Code' at the end of the rule book. Besides the minimum and maximum above the width of the stroke of the letter 1cm - 1.5cm, the letters must be ALL caps and Dark Blue.

I am looking at the 2005 USFA Fencing Rules. The index shows "Name on back: PC IVC. From the comments above I interpret that to mean: "APPENDIX C TO THE MATERIAL RULES", SUPPLIMENT, FENCERS PUBLICITY CODE. Section IV C.

This section refers to (as does this entire suppliment by my reading) to advertising which may be on a fencer's uniform, track suit, shoes, mask or other equipment. And the section refers to logos or other supporter marks, up to 4 of them that a fencer can adorn himself/herself with.

But it is not by my reading a reference to the individual's name that is supposed to be on his back. So my main question remains as to where this regulation is buried in the rules.??

Now by tradition I am willing to accept that somewhere there is a rule is that the name must be between 8-10 cm, 1-1.5 cm wide in the strokes and all caps.

My question based on previous posts is how much rule breaking static would a fencer receive if they show at a national or international event with lettering which is 7.5 cm high? The question is not frivolous. I have my name monogramed on my jacket (epee) and by measurement it is 7.5 cm in height. I also note that at least two individuals that I know who are in the world cup use the same monogram company. So I assume they have similiar heights in their names.

Just being curious.
Jonathan (not george)

[yeoldearmourer]

At a national not to likely at a internationl maybe depends on weapon controlled. All of are is 10cm by 1cm or 1.5

[fencerbill]

Just take a blue marker and extend the letters until they are 8 cm high.

It was done quite a bit at the 2000 World Junior/Cadets at South Bend where I was working as an armorer.

[Frank Pratt]

I think the point here is that despite what rules may be in place, the enforcement is somewhat lax at the NAC level as compared to the World Cup level. I've never seen a referee or armourer at a NAC pull out a ruler, but I have seen a sabreist at a NAC who was allowed to borrow a lame with someone else's name on the back. For that matter, I've never heard of anyone being penalized a NAC for a name "violation," unless they didn't have their name on their uniform at all.

[downunder]

My question based on previous posts is how much rule breaking static would a fencer receive if they show at a national or international event with lettering which is 7.5 cm high? The question is not frivolous. I have my name monogramed on my jacket (epee) and by measurement it is 7.5 cm in height. I also note that at least two individuals that I know who are in the world cup use the same monogram company. So I assume they have similiar heights in their names.

Just being curious.
Jonathan (not george)

at most competitions you won't have an issue.

At the world championships they tested our jackets and breeches too, so i assume that it would fail control there, but nowhere else.

Can you tell the difference between 7.5 cm and 8cm from a few metres away? I know i can't...

[KD5MDK]

You can tell the difference at equipment control when there's a ruler involved...

Incidentally, is there any rule that states you can't have anyone else's name on your lame or leg (USFA)? Assuming you have your own name on the other place.

[DHCJr]

I am looking at the 2005 USFA Fencing Rules. The index shows "Name on back: PC IVC. From the comments above I interpret that to mean: "APPENDIX C TO THE MATERIAL RULES", SUPPLIMENT, FENCERS PUBLICITY CODE. Section IV C.
Just being curious.
Jonathan (not george)

It is exactly what you put above. This only deals with the USFA, but you might check page 77, 3rd paragraph from the bottom. On the FIE rulebook, it will be on a different page, but the same section.

At World Cups, things sometimes gets by. At Worlds most likely not.