Holiday Gift from the FIE

[Prometheus]

The following english transcript is copied from the CFF website.
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There were a number of decisions taken that will come into effect on the 1st of January 2002 at all FIE sanctioned events and, therefore, fencers should take note of the following:

the maximum length for matches in the pools will now be of 3 minutes, reduced from 4 minutes, though 4 minutes is the time period retained for matches in team events;

referees will be called upon to deal with 'passivity' on the strip in the following manner: during the first and second periods of direct elimination matches, if both the fencers display 'manifest passivity', the referee will immediately halt the match and the minute-long rest period will start at that point; in the pools, and during the last period of DE matches, the referee will call the halt, give a warning (verbal) to both fencers - if passivity again occurs, the referee will halt the bout and will immediately start the last minute of fencing (if score is even, drawing of lots for priority before the start of the last minute will take place);

there are stronger sanctions in the case of team events, with a designated area identified where the team and team captain must remain, and new sanctions for anyone wandering outside the designated area, or interfering in any way with the referee, that will remain valid for all the matches occurring in that team match;

the 5-year limit on the life of blades has been eliminated, however, all blades will still be subject to testing before an event;

'falling' ("chute" in French) will no longer be sanctioned as a fault by referees and becomes an allowable action;

once again, attention was drawn to the fact that the rule concerning excessive curvature of the blade ('flèche de la lame') was not being consistently applied and referees will now be asked to ensure that all fencers whose blades exceed the limit are penalized immediately ('carton jaune'), at any time during the bout, once they have been called on guard and they have declared themselves ready to fence,

a proposal mostly applying to sabre, but potentially affecting foil as well, whereby if any fencer manages to put 8 hits on his/her opponent in the first 3-minute period of a direct elimination match, then, as soon as the 8th touch is awarded, the referee will immediately call for the one-minute break;

any fencer putting one foot out of the strip will be sanctioned in the exact same manner as if he/she had put both feet off the strip - the same sanction will be applied in both cases, including loss of ground.
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[edew]

[quote]Originally posted by Prometheus:
[...]
There were a number of decisions taken that will come into effect on the 1st of January 2002 at all FIE sanctioned events and, therefore, fencers should take note of the following:

the maximum length for matches in the pools will now be of 3 minutes, reduced from 4 minutes, though 4 minutes is the time period retained for matches in team events; <hr></blockquote>

Hmm...three minutes sounds fine with me. Makes epee more interesting. The only ramifications I can see from this is more V4-D2 type results (i.e., scores not reaching the 5-point limit), and possibly miscounting of the pool results.

[quote]referees will be called upon to deal with 'passivity' on the strip in the following manner: during the first and second periods of direct elimination matches, if both the fencers display 'manifest passivity', the referee will immediately halt the match and the minute-long rest period will start at that point; in the pools, and during the last period of DE matches, the referee will call the halt, give a warning (verbal) to both fencers - if passivity again occurs, the referee will halt the bout and will immediately start the last minute of fencing (if score is even, drawing of lots for priority before the start of the last minute will take place); <hr></blockquote>

Unenforceable. Especially in epee, as attacking your opponent is just plain stupid. At the FIE level, cautious fencing is required in epee. At the lower levels (say, novice women's foil), fencers don't know better to attack. "Manifest passivity" may just come under the collusion with opponent rule, and we could go with that as well.

[quote]there are stronger sanctions in the case of team events, with a designated area identified where the team and team captain must remain, and new sanctions for anyone wandering outside the designated area, or interfering in any way with the referee, that will remain valid for all the matches occurring in that team match; <hr></blockquote>

Good. Team matches are tough enough for referees to preside over without have two coaches and two captains breathing down the referee's neck. Whatever it takes to keep the event to just two fencers fencing in a relay format is a good idea. I'm guessing a lot of the FOC folks from across the board pushed this through.

[quote]the 5-year limit on the life of blades has been eliminated, however, all blades will still be subject to testing before an event; <hr></blockquote>

Don't know what the significance of this may be.

[quote]'falling' ("chute" in French) will no longer be sanctioned as a fault by referees and becomes an allowable action; <hr></blockquote>

That's fine. I always wondered about that rule, and have noted that many referees rarely award warnings or other penalties when the fall occur. If you watch various tapes of World Cups and such, you see plenty of falls and never is a yellow card ever awarded.

[quote]once again, attention was drawn to the fact that the rule concerning excessive curvature of the blade ('flèche de la lame') was not being consistently applied and referees will now be asked to ensure that all fencers whose blades exceed the limit are penalized immediately ('carton jaune'), at any time during the bout, once they have been called on guard and they have declared themselves ready to fence, <hr></blockquote>

This is good. I prefer my foil to be relatively straight, and don't want my opponent benefitting from a bent blade. As a referee, this will allow me more opportunities to use that 1x2x4 block for checking for bend.

[quote]a proposal mostly applying to sabre, but potentially affecting foil as well, whereby if any fencer manages to put 8 hits on his/her opponent in the first 3-minute period of a direct elimination match, then, as soon as the 8th touch is awarded, the referee will immediately call for the one-minute break; <hr></blockquote>

Good for both sabre and foil, as it will allow the fencer to talk to his or her coach. I know that currently in sabre, once you put that mask on (in a DE bout), you're on your own until the fifteenth touch. Whatever your coach and learn about your opponent will never be transmitted to you until after the fact.

[quote]any fencer putting one foot out of the strip will be sanctioned in the exact same manner as if he/she had put both feet off the strip - the same sanction will be applied in both cases, including loss of ground.
<hr></blockquote>

Another good one. Does this mean no more yellow cards, but just loss of 1 metre? Or the fencer will be awarded a yellow card PLUS loss of 1 metre? Either way, this'll help deal with the "first verbal warning, next a yellow card" BS. Tough enough to remember who's got what without having to remember who's got the verbal warning.

Also, I think this will decisively force epee fencers to fence in the middle. Which makes my life as a referee much easier.

[swordsen]

I wonder how long before the USFA will declare these the law of the land overhere? I don't think I will start using them at the tournament we are having in January. Things are hectic enough without throwing new rules at everyone.

[Peach]

Well, I'll be thrilled if they throw out the "falling" penalty. As I get older I land on my rear end far more often than I'd like.

Of course, there is still the dreaded "pointing at her and laughing" penalty, but at least that doesn't result in a point for my opponent if I get it twice in a bout.

[Purple Fencer]

[quote]Originally posted by Peach:
<strong>Well, I'll be thrilled if they throw out the "falling" penalty. As I get older I land on my rear end far more often than I'd like.

Of course, there is still the dreaded "pointing at her and laughing" penalty, but at least that doesn't result in a point for my opponent if I get it twice in a bout.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you just get 'em to laugh at you again anbd smack 'em, upside the head while they're doing so, Peach!

[Peach]

Sam - that's the kind of strategy I like! Merry Christmas.

[Purple Fencer]

He he he..I think that falls into the "age and treachery" game, right?

[Peach]

When it's the only game you have, you go with it &lt;grin&gt;!

[swordsen]

Actually I doubt this will do anything to force epeeist to the cneter of the strip. We'll just take the periodic meter and keep fencing. If they wanted to force epeeists to the center of the strip it would be an automatic card each time you stepped off. And I have noticed just as many if not more foilists clinging to the edge of the strip as though they would fall off a cliff if their foot wasn't touching that line.

[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: swordsen ]</p>

[Methix]

[quote]Originally posted by Prometheus:
<strong>any fencer putting one foot out of the strip will be sanctioned in the exact same manner as if he/she had put both feet off the strip - the same sanction will be applied in both cases, including loss of ground.
======</strong><hr></blockquote>

Does this apply to the back end of the strip too?

[neevel]

The five-year limit on FIE blades was to a large extent rendered obsolete when the eddy-current microfracture tester was introduced. The original intention was to get rid of old, worn-out blades that were getting ready to break-- since there's no way of telling how long a blade has actually been in use (as opposed to sitting in a vendor's stock waiting to be sold or in a fencer's closet as a spare), a blanket five year limit from date of manufacture was applied. With a method available to actually test if a blade is wearing out, there's no real need for the blanket limit.

A small downside it that this may eliminate one way to get a good deal on maraging blades, since vendors would generally drop the price significantly on any date-expired blades they still had in stock.

-Dave

[Chris]

[quote]Originally posted by neevel:
<strong>The five-year limit on FIE blades was to a large extent rendered obsolete when the eddy-current microfracture tester was introduced. The original intention was to get rid of old, worn-out blades that were getting ready to break-- since there's no way of telling how long a blade has actually been in use (as opposed to sitting in a vendor's stock waiting to be sold or in a fencer's closet as a spare), a blanket five year limit from date of manufacture was applied. With a method available to actually test if a blade is wearing out, there's no real need for the blanket limit.

A small downside it that this may eliminate one way to get a good deal on maraging blades, since vendors would generally drop the price significantly on any date-expired blades they still had in stock.

-Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, this sounds interesting; exactly where, and when is this sort of testing done?

[goldbaker]

People here have mentioned that the new rules may force fencers to the center of the strip.

I've had referees (most notably at summer nationals) tell me to move to the center of the strip before, and I've seen it happen to other fencers frequently in righty/lefty bouts. Inevitably, the fencers drift back over to the edge of the strip again, and the referees gets more and more annoyed. I've always been curious as to whether the referee actually has any authority to make you stay in the center. I don't want to upset the director, of course, but as long as I've got both feet on the strip, can't I be wherever I want?

[swordsen]

The ref can tell you to go to the center between halts. But he can't stop the bout and put you there unless you step off the strip.

as for the electro whatever blade testers, I saw one at the Atlanta Olympics. You will probably never see one at any strictly domestic event.

[oiuyt]

Swordsen has it exactly right. Actually the ref has an OBLIGATION to make sure that both fencers restart in the lateral center of the strip. In my experience, however, most of the time that the ref makes a point of it, the fecners make a point of making their initial step after the fence command either a lateral one or at least a diagonal one, not just to reestablish themselves where they want, but to drive the point home to the ref that this is where they WILL be fencing.

Does it make it harder for the ref? Yes of course. Then again, the fencers aren't supposed to be making the ref's job easy, they're supposed to be making their fencing better/easier.

Does it hurt to piss off a ref? Yeah, it frequently does. This is why it's usually better to subtlely shift slowly back to fencing along the side of the strip. As long as your opponent isn't quickly shifting back to the preferred location anyway. That said, I'd rather have a situation where we've both slightly annoyed the ref and are fencing on equal footing than have my opponent have slightly annoyed the ref and have me fencing at a competitive disadvantage.

If you think it's important to your game to be on the side of the strip, go there. There's nothing in the rules preventing you from fencing on the very edge, and as long as you still follow the rules, fence where you're going to do the best. Is it worth calling for a BC ruling to enforce this right? No, of course not. Until it gets to that point however....

Refs: I KNOW it makes your job harder. It's harder to see would be toe touches, it gives 1 more thing to worry about when you've already got a bunch, if the strips are poorly set up it can increase the odds of problems with off-strip things, etc., etc. It IS LEGAL however. Putting further restrictions on the fencers to make the ref's job easier is NOT a decision which the ref can make. If it were, feel free to declare at the beginning of each bout that you're just going to throw out every double light touch. It's amazing how much easier the ref's job becomes then....

-B

[neevel]

[quote]Originally posted by Chris:
<strong>

Well, this sounds interesting; exactly where, and when is this sort of testing done?</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's done in control prior to the event (remember, for FIE 'A' grade tournaments competitors turn in their gear to the armory for a full inspection beforehand). You can actually buy the system from Blade-- for a total of US$2300 ($1800 for the test equipment, $500 for the Amico scoring machine that does double duty as the signaling apparatus for the tester). The business end of the thing is a cylindrical sensor that slides over the blade. If any kind of a disruption that indicates a microfracture is detected, it beeps. It's pretty quick and simple to use, but given the cost you're unlikely to see it at anything but an FIE 'A' competition-- certainly not in U.S. competitions where FIE blades aren't required.

-Dave