Referree Clinic

[jdoiv]

Hi all,
I'm looking for a referee clinic in the southeast. Anyone know of anything coming up other than Summer Nats?
Thanks in advance...

[KD5MDK]

Have you asked your Division Chair? Checked fencingofficials.org for the list of local Referee Instructors?

[fencergal33]

Good luck. I've been looking for one all season. It's even on my Division's list of things getting done this season: 2 referee clinics. None so far.

If you find one, let me know!

[jdoiv]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Have you asked your Division Chair? Checked fencingofficials.org for the list of local Referee Instructors?

Thanks KD5MDK. I didn't think about asking the division chair. Though I did check the division website (no info listed for any clinics). The FOC site is apparently getting an update and the link to the FOC Instructors is down.

[hpfencing]

We are not quite in the right area but we are hosting the referee clinic and testing in Amarillo, TX on March 18-19 if you are interested.

Cost is only $40.

It's on the askfred site under Rocky Mountain Section. The Event's name is The Weekend Madness.

Hope you can find something a little closer but.....

[jdoiv]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

We are not quite in the right area but we are hosting the referee clinic and testing in Amarillo, TX on March 18-19 if you are interested.

Cost is only $40.

It's on the askfred site under Rocky Mountain Section. The Event's name is The Weekend Madness.

Hope you can find something a little closer but.....

Thanks for the invite Matt. Amarillo is a bit of a stretch for me. That's about a 18 hour drive if I remember right. I'm hoping to find something either in TN, Kentucky, Alabama or Georgia. Say within a 6 hour drive from Nashville. I would certainly consider Amarillo if I didn't have family responisbilities though.

John

[RebelFencer]

There was one that was heavily advertised at the beginning of the season as a joint effort of TN and AL divisions.

[Frank Pratt]

I don't think there are any more divisional referee clinics scheduled, And I doubt one could be arranged before Nationals rolls around. However, I think there are supposed to be clinics available at every Sectional Championships, though I could be wrong (I got my "6" at the 1999 Sectionals in Tampa.) Check out http://www.fencingofficials.org/ for more details. The SE Sectionals will be on May 6/7 in Birmingham, AL this year.

There will defiantly be some seminars and probably some opportunity to take the written test at the Summer Nationals, but from what I understand, practical tests were not given at the 2005 Summer Nationals due to time constraints.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

I don't think there are any more divisional referee clinics scheduled, And I doubt one could be arranged before Nationals rolls around. However, I think there are supposed to be clinics available at every Sectional Championships, though I could be wrong (I got my "6" at the 1999 Sectionals in Tampa.) Check out http://www.fencingofficials.org/ for more details. The SE Sectionals will be on May 6/7 in Birmingham, AL this year.

There will defiantly be some seminars and probably some opportunity to take the written test at the Summer Nationals, but from what I understand, practical tests were not given at the 2005 Summer Nationals due to time constraints.

I don't believe that there's any requirement to have clinics at every Sectional Championships. What IS required is to have one of the members of the FOC (or someone designated by the FOC as an adequate replacement) present. The clinic is a full-day thing (7-8 hours minimum), so it's hard to schedule conveniently in conjunction with a 2-day tournament. Likely written/practical exams should be available at any Sectional Championships (at least with prior arrangement).

Practical (and written) exams were given at 2005 Summer Nationals, as far as I remember (I know written were given, I thought practical were as well).

The list of certified instructors has recently been massively pared down. I don't see anyone closer to the Southeast than Texas or Pennsylvania on the current list.

-B

[KD5MDK]

The FOC website says practicals were not offered, although that may have been changed.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

The FOC website says practicals were not offered, although that may have been changed.

Quite possible, though I thought I remembered some people taking them. I distinctly remember people taking the written, and I can easily believe that I'm just extending that memory to cover more than what actually took place.

I don't think Nationals is the best place for initial practical exams (Sectionals is considerably more appropriate, as are all kinds of regional and divisional events). Of course established referees are routinely observed at national events, including Nationals.

-B

[hpfencing]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Quite possible, though I thought I remembered some people taking them. I distinctly remember people taking the written, and I can easily believe that I'm just extending that memory to cover more than what actually took place.

I don't think Nationals is the best place for initial practical exams (Sectionals is considerably more appropriate, as are all kinds of regional and divisional events). Of course established referees are routinely observed at national events, including Nationals.

-B

I know at the the Rocky Mountain Sectionals that people can be observed and take the test. As far as I know we have NEVER had the clinic on the same weekend as Sectional Qualifiers.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'm a 10 in epee right now. What process would I have to go through to take my practical in atlanta this summer?

[jdoiv]

I think you have to get in touch with the FOC in writing requesting to be observed. The request has to be sent in at least
3 weeks prior to the event. Then may or may not be able to observe you though. Check out the FOC site.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I'm a 10 in epee right now. What process would I have to go through to take my practical in atlanta this summer?

The only requirement I know of in reffing epee is to, and by any and ALL means necessary, stay awake for the entire bout. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Fatfencer

[lindajdunn]

I you find a referree clinic north of Nashville within 5 hours of driving, I'd like to know about it. I'm in Indianapolis.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

The only requirement I know of in reffing epee is to, and by any and ALL means necessary, stay awake for the entire bout. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Fatfencer

Touch, for touch, referring épée may be easier since you're not constantly making right-of-way judgments, but épée is not at all immune to dozens of difficult judgment calls that plague all three weapons, such as determining whether or not a fencer started an attack before or after stepping off the strip or before or after corps à corps. Furthermore, if you make a call that a fencer or coach does not like, they can nastier than they would with a "bad" right-of-way call. After all, how could a ref possibly screw up in épée?!

nyacfencing had a good point in a previous post:

Originally Posted by nyacfencing

It has always been interesting to me that many view epee as easier to direct than foil or saber. The truth is that epee is the hardest to direct because, when things go wrong, they go very wrong.

In foil and saber, the fencers understand that they have to live with whatever the director says the action was. Sure, they may argue or try to intimidate, but at the end of the day they are used to getting screwed a few touches a bout and can generally live with it. If in a 15-14 bout the director made 27 good calls, and 2 bad ones, as long as they weren't critical bout-ending touches, the fencers will be forgiving.

Epeeists do not think this way. Because it is so infrequent that a director even needs to make a call in epee, and because when they do it is usually the result of some extremely close or unusual action, it is critical that the call be correct. Even when they make the correct call, because of the situation it is almost definite that the fencers will argue relentlessly. This is because a director cannot make any "good" calls in epee, there are just calls (dictated by the lights), and all a director can do is make a bad call. In that same 15-14 bout, the director would have made 0 good calls (the 27 non-confrontational touches are not attributed to them) and 2 bad calls, and the losing fencer will haunt them with it for months.

[keropie]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

Touch, for touch, referring épée may be easier since you're not constantly making right-of-way judgments, but épée is not at all immune to dozens of difficult judgment calls that plague all three weapons, such as determining whether or not a fencer started an attack before or after stepping off the strip or before or after corps à corps. Furthermore, if you make a call that a fencer or coach does not like, they can nastier than they would with a "bad" right-of-way call. After all, how could a ref possibly screw up in épée?!

nyacfencing had a good point in a previous post:

Something else to consider: while, as mentioned above, relatively few calls have to made in epee, the ones that do are hard to call, additionally, when they happen, it's hard not to have been dozing for the last ten seconds, and now you're thinking 'wow, i wonder if was off the strip? can't seem to remember very clearly... hmm...'

The worst argument I ever got as an official was from an epee fencer when I disallowed his touch (he made a riposte at a passing fencer, and during his riposte before the point was near him about half the stuff on the table flew around as he hit it with his weapon, and wanted the touch... doofus...), and then disallowed another as he hit not his first ripose, or even his first remise, but his second remise facing away from his opponent. He REALLY didn't like the card he got for it either. Poor guy.

[KD5MDK]

I don't find epee harder to referee than foil or sabre. As long as you: pay attention and know the rules, you're pretty much ok. Many people seem to have problem with one or the other or both of those, but I don't find it too difficult.

[hpfencing]

If anyone is looking for a good referee clinic and would like to fly; we are still having one in Amarillo on March 18th. Let me know if you are interested.