Problems with Sectional Attendance

[hpfencing]

I posted this in the clubs area for the Rocky Mountain Section but I thought I'd ask on the main board too.

What do different Sections do to encourage attendance at there Sectionals Event?

I am in th Rocky Mountain Section and we are spread way out, we'd like to get MORE members invovled.

If anyone has ideas that I can take to the division officers and the tournament organizers; please let me know!

[Mr Epee]

Sure,

1. Find a fixed location preferably in a central and neutral location.
2. Have the competition centrally managed, so it's not a money grab for a particular group/club/division.
3. Fabulous Prizes
4. Make the event feel important.
5. Honor Past Champions (this may take some work, but I'm positive it's worth it, because people like to be part of traditions)
6. Quality Referee
7. Market the events to individual members, not just clubs. It drives me freakin' bonkers when our club gets a flyer for a tournament with a sticky note saying "Please post in your club"... WHAT??? Very, very, very, poor marketing, that.

[Sciurus-Rex]

It's just a sad fact of travel logistics -- the closer you are to the center of massive population, the greater the attendance.

So my advice is to declare yourself a suburb of Dallas.

[hpfencing]

It's just a sad fact of travel logistics -- the closer you are to the center of massive population, the greater the attendance.

So my advice is to declare yourself a suburb of Dallas.

LOL we are not even in the same Section as Dallas. Thanks though!

[oso97]

LOL we are not even in the same Section as Dallas. Thanks though!

Well, a number of other people in your Division want to be!

[hpfencing]

Yes a long time debate, where should Plains Texas be......

But back to the subject at hand the Rocky Mountain Sectionals. How can we encourage more attendance.

[WJM]

I'm sure people will argue, but please remember this is just IMO, and if you do disagree, please consider I understand where you're coming from, this is just reflective of where I'm coming from personally....

That said...

The number one reason most "good" or "elite" fencers use to select tournaments is the strength (and to lesser extent, size) of the prospective field. That's why you've seen comments on this and other threads related to strength and ref quality. Tournaments with "name" draw people because we know that people we want to fence keep coming year after year.

So what to do with an event that doesn't draw? Contact all the "top" fencers in the section, and ask them if they're coming. If there's a tournament some are not thinking of going to, but you can list some really good people who ARE coming, you can often convince them to go as well, and of course, the larger and stronger that list, the more people will want to come. After a couple of years, you've got a big name tournament with a great draw. Again, all this is just IMO.

[Beowulfman6]

When you do it matters too. Southeast sectionals happen be the same week as exams for me. I'm sure I'm not the only college student out there that has exams and papers to write at the same time most sections are doing there qualifiers.

[fluidfencer]

Sorry about the timing, but May 6-7 turned out to be the only weekend that worked. It's getting difficult to schedule anything these days. We booked it almost a year ahead of time but that only helped a little.

When you do it matters too. Southeast sectionals happen be the same week as exams for me. I'm sure I'm not the only college stuedant out there that has exams and papers to write at the same time most sections are doing there qualifiers.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Seriously, you're not going to suddenly grow attention and attract strong fencers through blunt advertising alone. You've got to think in stages that radiate out from your club: First, make sure you've got all your own people ready to fence their hearts out that day. Then call your closest neighbor fencing clubs in other cities, those groups who are most likely to treat you nicely and help out -- keep stressing how important it is that they attend and how much you'll appreciate it and how much fun everyone will have. THEN you leverage THOSE confirmed names/numbers when you contact the next ring on the map, stretching a bit farther yet still. And outward, and outward ... And finally, if you're lucky, you might be able to entice a few top fencers from far, far away -- they may be in town for the weekend (lucky!) or owe someone a favor.

Stages. Strength closest to home. Give it time. And be bluntly honest with yourself about the population resources you have on hand -- we can't all be New York, after all.

(And one more friendly tip, based on your previous years' efforts here online: DON'T BUG THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF US WITH TOO MANY REFERENCES! We love ya, man.)

[hpfencing]

Understood Sciurus-Rex thanks for the tip...

[notalent]

1. Seperation of events. This may seem odd but we hold a Jr PCC and a Senior PCC. The Jr is a SRYC This gives the kids their own day and keeps the tournaments running faster. It also allows for a second thing that works
2. Team Trophies. We hold Team events at Sr PCCs on the sunday These events are well attended and HARD fought. 16 mens epee teams is not un heard of. Some years we have had 10+ teams in all the weapons. The prepetual trophys are large with the previous years champions names engraved on them. The winning team keeps the trophy till next years PCC. For the kids there is a composite Team trophy for the best placing club overall.
3. Location. Sr PCC has been in vegas for atleast the last 5 years. While not every Section has Vegas most have a large city to act as a draw.

I know that RockyMountain section is in Phoenix this year so have nice weather too look forward to in a nice hotel. I am looking forward to seeing folks there.
TD

[tbryan]

I posted this in the clubs area for the Rocky Mountain Section but I thought I'd ask on the main board too.

What do different Sections do to encourage attendance at there Sectionals Event?

I am in th Rocky Mountain Section and we are spread way out, we'd like to get MORE members invovled.

If anyone has ideas that I can take to the division officers and the tournament organizers; please let me know!

Some of the responses so far seem to indicate how to build a big, strong event in your section, but I thought that you were talking about your Sectional Qualifier for Nationals. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Who are you having trouble attracting? At that event, many of the strong fencers do have an incentive. Div-II fencers who want a shot at Div-IA will attend. Div-IA fencers who are not otherwise qualified will attend. If you have some rivalry among the top fencers in your section, that might pull more strong fencers even if they are already pre-qualified or do not plan to go to Nationals. I think that Sectionals are most important to that layer of fencers who aren't on the points list and aren't really planning to make a run at that level of competition. Perhaps they're just starting to break out of Div-II, or they'd just like to fence some strong As/Bs from outside their home division. For example, it's hard finding an A or B in foil in my division (North Carolina). I have to travel to fence one, and Sectionals is one of the events where I'm sure I'll have to fence a couple.

For stronger fencers who do not plan to attend Nationals, you could try to build up Sectionals as the "end of the season" event to win. I think that some of the other suggestions about honoring past winners (a plaque or trophy that has previous winners' names on it in each event, etc.) may help with that.

The problem I have seen with Sectionals is that even when it's close, a lot of Div-II and Div-III fencers choose not to attend. I think that they feel that since they have no shot at qualifying for Div-IA, there's no reason to attend. In that case, it's important to encourage these fencers to attend, too. They may not get the cool trophy or a qualifying spot or anything, but they will get to fence with top notch referees against top notch competition. They'll also get a chance (without having to travel to Nationals) to see some fencing from outside their region. If nothing else, you can point out that for every 4 fencers (assuming that 25% of the field still qualify) who attend, there will be one more qualifying spot. If it's not too far, then you can encourage fencers to attend by having a Div-II fencer from your club and whom everyone likes make the plea. "I'd like a shot at fencing in Div-IA this year, but it'll be tough..."

But really, it's a tough sell for a D, E, or U to travel a long distance to fence a pool and maybe one DE. In my experience, most of them would prefer to save their money and vacation time to attend a Div-II National event.

So who are you having trouble attracting?

[dberke]

The problem I have seen with Sectionals is that even when it's close, a lot of Div-II and Div-III fencers choose not to attend. I think that they feel that since they have no shot at qualifying for Div-IA, there's no reason to attend.

This is, in my opinion, a key problem - when the USFA removed the Div II/III qualification path from sectionals (other than by qualifying for Div-IA), just about every Div III fencer lost the big reason to attend sectionals.

If a Div II/III fencer doesn't think they have a shot at Div-IA, then sectionals just is another large open event for them. While there's value in that, it may not be worth attending if travel costs are high.

Perhaps offering free entry for Div III fencers would encourage turnout...?

Dan

[hpfencing]

And with the national level events getting so big, it might be beeter to move Div II to the Sectional level on only have the y14 and Div III at Div Level.


What do ya think?

[CvilleFencer]

My thoughts are pretty much in line with Tbryan and Dberke. With the Div II/III paths gone, if you are not a Div 1A fencer why bother? At least in my section/Division 5 out of seven years it is often cheaper to travel and fence at a NAC than to attend sectionals. This is the big thing. You have to find a way to attract C and below fencers by making it worthwhile for them to attend.

I am not sure how you do that but some of the suggestions already mentioned seem to be a good start. Tradition, cool prizes, maybe have a "Highest Placing Unrated Fencer" and "Highest Placing C or below Fencer" prize for example. Also if you have any type of sectional circuit, making the sectionals the final event, or even just and event, in the circuit should help attendance quite a bit from those who would not normally attend but that would still like to fence in the Circuit events.

[KD5MDK]

Here's a problem: I might attend Sectionals this year as a Ref, but not as a fencer, because I'm not all that interested in fencing Div-IA at Summer Nationals. Getting my rear handed to me by a buch of Bs and Cs who didn't bother going to NACs or whatever but are still better than me isn't a huge incentive to pay the fees. If I'm going to fence, it'll be Div II. That said, I might qualify at Sectionals, and then I've taken a qualifying spot away from someone who might have gone? I recall this coming up in a thread earlier, and I'm not saying I ought to throw a bout or something, but it's not a huge incentive to enter.

[oiuyt]

Getting my rear handed to me by a buch of Bs and Cs who didn't bother going to NACs or whatever but are still better than me isn't a huge incentive to pay the fees.

I'm a bit confused. What does attending NACs have to do with Div IA?

-B

[KD5MDK]

The people ineligable for Div-I and Div-III (Cs, Bs and As who don't have National Points). The people who will throughly beat me in Div-IA if I enter it in Atlanta. Perhaps I have an exaggerated view of the level of fencing going on there.

[bigdawg2121]

There is definitely a time/money issue with sectionals. I know that for me personally sectionals this year are further than nationals. Why bother? Is it worth a trek to whoknowswhere, USA just so I can qualify for 1A foil and epee? Nope, not at all really. I'm very much tempted to fence div1s and consider myself lucky that I have more days in which the amount of sleep I get is inconsequential. The travel issue is only compounded by the fact that sectionals around here are just as expensive as nationals more or less. Actually I think that I remember sectional fees being even higher...what incentive is there to do that? Make it a reasonable tourney ($30 is plenty) and maybe choose a central location for the good of the region instead of rotating things.