Tip up?

[Ben Greenhalgh]

Keeping your sword up when facing an opponent is most probably the wise thing to do. However i drop my guard often to make my opponent look down at my sword (newbies) instead of looking at my face or posture. i Also drop my guard so i can flick my sword up and catch them under their sword, very effective btw.
However i have found that i am very weak if i do not attack first as my guard is down and i can't react quick enough! i however do use this technique as a faint to draw a blade.
What do you all do tip up or tip down?

[KD5MDK]

I do lots of wrist attacks, so keeping my tip down makes it hard to parry. Not too many people practice 2, and I can always circle around to arm/shoulder if they do it.

[RITFencing]

I fence in both 6 (tip up) and 8 (tip down). It's a bit easier to parry when I'm in 6 because my blade doesn't travel as far, but in 8 it becomes almost pointless for an opponent to try an attack on my blade, which can be very frustrating. You can still decieve the other person's blade in 6 and you can still parry from 8; one is just a bit easier. It's also good to be able to vary your game.

[keropie]

I would say that variety is the spice of life. I've been known to fence with my point almost anywhere, coming on guard in first, second, third, fourth, sixth, and eighth, as well as large invitations of eighth and sixth (well beyond the 'normal' position. If you are in a 'normal' eighth or whatever, parries really shouldn't be that difficult. If you are having a hard time with that, then the culprit is either an overly large invitation, or some technical error in the execution of the parry.

[RebelFencer]

I will let my tip down when I'm at a safe distance so that I can keep my shoulder relaxed. I try not to have it down within a threatening distance of an opponent unless I know I can hit them like that.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I usually keep my en garde in 8 if I'm out of range, or if I fear my opponent is going to take my blade. If I'm in advance lunge range, I'll fence in 6.

[_fence(1)]

What is 6 and 8? I only know 1-5

[RITFencing]

Do you fence sabre? They only go up to 7.

In epee and foil, sixth position places the bellguard on the outside of your body, hand slightly supinated, tip at or above the bell guard. Eighth position is the same thing, but with the tip below the bell guard.

[_fence(1)]

Do you fence sabre? They only go up to 7.

Yes, sabre. I'm pretty shure there are only 5 of them in sabre...

[RITFencing]

Well, according to our sabre coach, there are 7. He's a bit old school (not classical, just 20 years ago) but I'm pretty sure he'd still know.

[KD5MDK]

I could forgive a sabre fencer not knowing 7, but 6 (reverse 5) still has some few uses, mostly as an instinctive "oh crap" parry.

[RITFencing]

Ah, oh crap parries. Where would I be without them?

On the points list.

[rcmatthews]

If you mean the sabre 6 to be a 5 with the plam facing you, it is my personal opinion that it is a useless parry for one reason. It is almost impossible to riposte out of, and doesnt protect anything that a 5 cant do better.

[oiuyt]

I could forgive a sabre fencer not knowing 7, but 6 (reverse 5) still has some few uses, mostly as an instinctive "oh crap" parry.

If you mean the sabre 6 to be a 5 with the plam facing you, it is my personal opinion that it is a useless parry for one reason. It is almost impossible to riposte out of, and doesnt protect anything that a 5 cant do better.

Especially with the new timings it should just about be impossible to score a riposte from 6 without getting locked out by a remise. Prior to that it had an extremely marginal use in situations after one was parried in 4 when one's opponent riposted to head. But even then was mostly an "oh &@%#@" parry. Or a means of showing off by how much you p0wn the n00b.

KD5- Care to describe what you refer to as 7? Once you move beyond the standard moves (especially with parries) names (especially numbering systems) tend to suffer from massive overloading.

-B

[KD5MDK]

I am not sure what people think of as 7, but since I've never been taught one, I assumed it was useless. I have the notion it's an over the shoulder parry protecting your back from someone passing you, with the tip towards the floor.

As for parry 6, how about they feint head, but go around the tip of your blade, but not low enough for 4 (without being blown through, that is)? It seems like a small duck and 6 could be useful there. Riposte would be dropping your wrist and making a chest cut with your hand "upside down (findernails up)". Ripostes are also somewhat easier for lefty-righty situations, which is what I'm most accustomed to. I'm not saying use it a lot, just that it has some purpose left (as an emergency, rather than planned, parry).

[Chafunkta]

For foil, I prefer to fence now with my tip down, in the 8 position. Since I can get an attack called by mearly pointing my tip in the opponent's general direction, I can initiate an attack from a position where my opponent cannot take my blade.

Also, when I'm fencing people that keep their tip down, I know most of the time they're comfortable with coming up in six (parry under my blade) in order to parry my attack, so I use that to my advantage and disengage.
So be careful if you do the same thing in a certain position. If you either parry 4 everytime you're in sixte, or parry 6 everytime you have your blade down, watch out. An opponent, once he notices, can easily exploit that.

[_fence(1)]

http://www.fencing.ca/coaching_manua..._sabre_eng.pdf

There are five(5) basic parries in sabre, six(6) if you include the master's parry which has long been discarded as an inefficient competition parry.

[Moniteur]

In the Italian tradition, 7th in sabre is essentially the inverse of 1st.. from point in line, rotate (as a right hander) the weapon clockwise to 4th position (knucklebow turned to the left) and bend the forearm up at the elbow, leaving edge of the sabre turned diagonally upward and to the right, point forward and down about 45 degrees.. impact with the incoming attack should be had well in front of your body, and then be yielded back to a 'point down, edge to the right, over the right shoulder' Riposte to internal chest, molinello to head, external cheek, external flank, or rising diagonally across the stomach from right to left. During the parry the elbow and forearm are kept well to the left.

This is typical of the Northern Italian (Milanese) system - through Giuseppe Radaelli.

The Southern Italian (Neapolitan-Roman) system of Masaniello Parise did not have a 7th parry, but instead yielded 6th dropping the point.

Not a terribly useful parry today by any means - the blades are simply too light for it to work well, and yielding parries are definitely not in favor unless you really want the machine to block you out and give them the remise.. With a 19th century fencing sabre, on the other hand, its a wonderful parry yielding a very powerful riposte.

In point of fact, Radaelli had 9 parries.
1st (same as today)
2nd (similar as today, but with the arm withdrawn and outside the body more)
3rd (shoulder height, parried cuts to the external cheek)
4th (shoulder height, parried cuts to the internal cheek)
5th (same as today, but more point forward, and point higher)
6th (inverse of 5th, also point high and forward)
7th (see above)
4th Low (essentially today's 4th parry, but made on a half cross-step back, to parry thrusts and descending and *rising* cuts to the flank
3rd Low (same, but in 3rd).

Parise had 1 through 6th, and they looked more or less like modern fencing parries.

Shrug - just a useless FYI.

[jBirch]

I have been in the habit of making stupid comments lately, but I shall prevail one day...

I've heard about 12 parries in sabre, all marginally useful with the primary 3 being more significantly more useful then the secondary 2, which are significantly more useful then the remaining weird stuff...

Primary parries
Tierce
Quarte
Quinte

Secondary Parries
Seconde
Prime

Tertiary Parries
6 - like foil
7 - like foil
8 - like foil

Quarternary Parries (weird stuff)
9 - reversed 5 with the palm facing you (the 6 mentioned above)
10 - from 3 turn your wrist upwards like you were lifting a barbell. Protects against whipovers to the top of the hand from opposite handed fencers. Essentially, parry with the knuckle guard.
11 - like a 5 but defending ascending cuts from the low line. Blade below the waist, slanting from outside to in and forward about 15 degrees. (The classic newbie "down" parry or a prise de fer from on top of the blade).
12 - Back. Essentially a prime on the outside. Palm outside the weapon elbow, high by the cheek. Blade descending to protect flank and shoulder. The 7 referenced earlier.

Hope this helps (in some useless way)...

James.

[Inquartata]

In the Italian tradition, 7th in sabre is essentially the inverse of 1st.. from point in line, rotate (as a right hander) the weapon clockwise to 4th position (knucklebow turned to the left) and bend the forearm up at the elbow, leaving edge of the sabre turned diagonally upward and to the right, point forward and down about 45 degrees...

I'm not visualizing this. How do you have the knucklebow to the left and the edge to the right? The two are in the same plane. Where the knucklebow goes, there too goes the edge...