Shame !!!

[soos]

That was a nightmare, and CIO made FIE do it !!!!

what a shame !! this is the end of fencing !!! shame !! **** them all !!! bloody morons ! how can they do such a stupid thing !!

new formula for OG and WC to come !!!
6 individual
3 MIXED team : 2 men/2women !!!
1 FULL MIXED ALL WEAPON team !!!

this is a JOKE !!???!! thats not possible !!!

FIE and CIO can DIE ! i **** them ! bloody bastard !! fencing deserve more respect than this **** !!!

I know ask everybody and fencing.net to tell those morons fencing isnt DEAD, and wont die because they always introduce new stuff to those bloddy meaningless OG like beach volley, bridge (!!) and what to come ?? river crossing ?? stone throwing ??

SHAME ON THEM

!!

come on fencing.net ! let the whole world fencing community make a HUGE letter (mail or sthg) to those bloody CIO and FIE to say "NO!"

i m the first to do it :

NO!

[damianip]

Soos,

Where and when was this announced?

They must be joking!!

Paolo

[soos]

i just saw it on the french TV : sport channel !!! here ppl r very ANGRY and i AM !!! and thats not a bloody ****ing joke !!!!

so come on support the NO! and **** them all !

[fencingguy]

F#$@ing idiots. Don't they realize that stupid gimicks aren't going to get them air time? It's a shame that the olympics are becoming so commercial. What ever happened to amateur competitors competing for the pure joy of sport. Now everything has to turn a profit or it's tossed. I'm not saying all change is bad, but this has to be the stupidest thing I've heard.

If anyone is putting together a petition I'll sign for sure.

[neevel]

Well, it's up on the news portion of Hans Rupp's site ( <a href="http://home.bawue.de/~hmrupp/fechten/news.htm" target="_blank">http://home.bawue.de/~hmrupp/fechten/news.htm</A> ). Says there that it only applies to the Olympics, not to World Champs (W.C.s currently don't follow the Olympic format, anyway).

Frankly, if we come out of the Congress with just this and not some of more onerous foil rule changes, I'll count my blessings and be satisfied.

-Dave

[soos]

well man, they maybe only say its for OG, but on TV they said that this stupid formula wont be easy to apply cose it will only be available in WC in 2003 !!!!???!!!

so that may mean that it will be applied to WC too !!!??!! mother ****ers !

this is a stupid meaningless formula !! lets have a world petition to show those morons from the CIO/FIE fencing still has values despite the whole sport world hasnt anymore !

[Crash55]

That is just weird and wrong. It looks liek a badly thought out play for more media attention. My guess is this is one step before removing the team part from the Olympics completely.

[Zelda]

Cant find it on the FIE site.........but if its true, There go my chances of OLYMPIC glory <img src="graemlins/crap.gif" border="0" alt="[Crap]" />

[edew]

I can't really show any gladness for the resulting "compromise", but if there is any silver lining in the clouds from the proposal, it does show that fencing is one of the very few sports where teams are comprised of men and women (albeit that the men compete against the men and the women compete against the women).

The six-person relay format would be very interesting to watch. I personally think that it's a good, spectator-friendly, TV-friendly, suspenseful, possibly exciting format.

Team A gets to choose which weapon to fence first, team B chooses the male/female order for that weapon. Team B chooses the second weapon. A chooses the gender order for the second round. The third round is the remaining weapon, and the gender order will be chosen by the higher seed.

The mixed team, 2 men, 2 women format doesn't
sound as good. There will be 16 bouts, which is too long, I think. The 9 bout 3-person format is perfect because it's just under an hour, so if they run bronze and gold medal team matches, that'll be just the 2 hours of entertainment. A 16-bout format could take quite a while, unless they drop the number of points per round to 4.

Of course, I'm assuming they're doing a round-robin relay format with each fencer fencing every other fencer (which means male fencers will fence against the female fencers, which means the women's sabre fencers will get totally demolished, unless they can really pick up the pace in the next four years). If it's just the two male fencers competing against their same-gendered compatriots on the other team and the two female fencers competing against their likewise, then I'm not sure how the format will go.

It would definitely be interesting (and cool) to see male vs. female in the Olympics. I'd like to see Laura Flessel go against, say, Paolo Milanoli.

Come to think of it, the FIE being a bunch of stuffy hasbeens, I don't think this mixed competition would happen. Maybe someone could clarify things for us.

[soos]

this is a meaningless formula !!

and men wont face women !!! of course !! just men vs men and women vs women !!

thats a full **** ...
men as nothing to do with women just like foil as nothing to do with epee or sabre !!! bloody **** !!

thats very different, and that needs to keep its particlurities !!!

come on ppl, fencing isnt one of those circus stuff, thats a damn huge sport ! i wonbt let it die because of morons who want to make more and more money with those dopped OG !! and they r to change rules about doping drugs list now ... to legalise some of them, that way perf will still improve, and ppl wont be positive in rules !!

damn ! how spoot is going. And when there s a clean/valued sport like fencing, they just destroy it from the inside !

****ing meaningless team competition !
just imagine what it would mean in athletic comparison :

sthg like men+women relay with 100m normal + 100m hurdle !!!
-&gt; 100m (1man) -&gt; 100m (1women) -&gt; 100m hurdle (1 man) -&gt; 100m hurdle (1woman)

does this formula mean anything in athletics, and would those guys accept such a thing ??? i dont think so !!!

so should we accept it !???!!!

i say NOOOOOOOOO !! definitly !!

arseholes ! DIE FIE/CIO DIE !
fencing is now a circus thing !

[edew]

I didn't make myself clear: I am not too happy, either, with this circus-like compromise. It is odd and sounds more like a last-ditch XFL manipulation instead of making the sport better for all.

Still, given that we peons don't have much say in it, the possibilities do sound rather intriguing, and may result in better fencing and better fencers and more visibility for the sport.

[soos]

still we can say **** to CIO/FIE here, and maybe make some kind of petition to mail it to CIO/FIE ...

cose i bet on sthg like a strike from internationals, and here , team france coach and members already said that was a full bull****...

national teams wont let it go that way, and WE peons can mail those morons from the CIO/FIE to show them we dont agree !!! at least we can do that !

[edew]

We peons can always mail the FIE/IOC (CIO) to voice our displeasure at their decisions. The point I'm making is that because we're peons, they will take that mail and promptly store it in the round file without even bothering to thank us for being so thoughtful.

Our opinions mean diddly squat to them.

[Prometheus]

Before we decry the new format lets calm down and give it a shot. I am going to offer a few suggestions, the intent is not to start a flame war. I hope to keep this a civil discussion.

Note: the rest of this email presumes that the reports of the new format are accurate.

The important goal that this new format accomplishes is 6 individual events. I assume that this was a necessiary provision. Fencing is an individual sport that has a relay format. Each fencer is from a federation but I would by no means consider it a team in the strict definition. Yes, the team events are fun but I think it is more important that all 6 individual events remain intact. That being said, and given the IOC dicum that says we cant have any more competitors or events we are left with four team events.

The challange of spreading four team events over six categories is a very difficult one. Doing so while allowing equal representation is nearly impossible. Assuming that we leave the individual events intact lets exaime the options:
- Eliminate mens or womens team events.
- Eliminte the team events for one of the weapons
Both of these proposistions seem perposterous. Moreso in light of the fact that the change was to bring gender equality in the events (which is generally reagrded as a good thing).

**Disclaimer: the following is not meant to insite a flame war**

If anyone as an alternate solution that gives us 6 individual events, equal events between the genders and does not eliminate a weapon from the team competiton please post it. I will sign my name second before it is mailed to the president of the FIE.

There is some very strong language regarding these changes. If you are so opposed to the changes I will let you be the one to tell your countries womens saber fencers that they shouldnt be allowed to go to the olympic games in athens because it would make the team events silly.

This compromize may not be traditional, but it lets some of the finest athletes in the world, who have been previously excluded from olympic competition based on thier gender to enter.

Besides, it might be fun. After we find out who the best fencers in the world are in each of the 6 categories, we get to find out who truly has the best team.

I realize that as a community we can be somewhat traditionalist, look at the arguments still permiating about the flick. I just hope that this change is recived like the 2000 saber revisions rather then the flick.

Lets at least give the format a chance before we leap into Athen's olympic flame in protest.

[Emfuser]

They're nucking futs... all of them.

Organizations that don't pay attention to their members wishes and sell out to some idea (or just plain money) usually don't last.

F#%@ the FIE for agreeing to this crap. <img src="graemlins/evil3.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil 2]" />

[Inquartata]

I have an alternative to this balderdash that will keep every fencer happy:

LEAVE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE!


These morons must stay up late devising fresh farces to foist upon us, they really must...

[Prometheus]

[quote]Originally posted by Inquartata:
<strong>I have an alternative to this balderdash that will keep every fencer happy:

LEAVE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE!


These morons must stay up late devising fresh farces to foist upon us, they really must...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Every fencer except the womens saber fencers who just got included in the olympic games for the first time ever.

[darius]

You mean, 5 individual events, 5 team events, and no women's sabre? &lt;sarcasm&gt;That's definitely the best idea I've heard yet.&lt;/sarcasm&gt;

[Inquartata]

Women's sabre was pretty much forced on them, no? Institutionalized chauvinism doesn't fly any more.

Who's forcing this idiocy on them?

[edew]

From a US fencing standpoint, women's sabre is a must because we have the best chance in that weapon, both in teams and individuals. Unless something seriously bad happens to our top women sabre fencers, I think we have the strongest chance to medal in women's sabre.

Women's foil had the chance this past 2000 Olympics. Now that Felicia and Ann are more or less retired, we're not exactly seeing newcomers replacing them. Iris is there, but who after that? Emily Cross, definitely. Andrea Ament, maybe. Only Iris has had strong international senior results.

Men's sabre is a definite possibility for the US, but the rest of the world's sabre fencers are just so strong.

Anyway, I agree with Prometheus' analysis. Given the dictum by the IOC that only so many medals may be awarded in this sport, the FIE is constrained to devise a format which is balanced among the sexes and kept within the numbers for medals. This rather odd looking result is one possible (may be the only possible) solution.

Again, I would pay to watch men and women compete against each other. I don't think it will be the case that the male fencers will completely dominate their respective female opponents. I mean, here in the US, the women fencers fence and train with the men. I would only assume that that is the case in all other countries.

And in this country, at least, a fencer of the calibre of Ann Marsh or Felicia can probably win 50% or more of the bouts against a top-level male fencer (say, an Alex Wood or a Sean McClain).

The balance is probably most pronounced in foil, a little less so in epee, and not nearly so in sabre. But, it could come within the next four years or so.