Good reasons for pride?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Louweasel

And saying that something is "un-american" - this has always bothered me a bit as regards meaning - does it mean all things american are good and true, so if you do something bad it is by definition not american? If I were to say something were un-British I would probably be joking about someone failing to maintain our stereotypical stiff upper lip, in a very tongue in cheek way, maybe to jolly them out of a very upset mood.

The expression "un-Swedish" denotes something positive in Swedish, someone who does not have an excessively stiff upper lip, sort of.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[jeff]

Originally Posted by Louweasel

I've never heard anyone say "I'm proud to be English/I'm proud to be French/I'm proud to be Pakistani".

Gee, I don't know about that - wasn't there an entire song about that by Gilbert and Sullivan in HMS PInafore? "He is an Englishman! / For he himself has said it, / And it's greatly to his credit, / That he is an Englishman!" (and so forth). Perhaps the mode of expression differs, but I think the sentiment is universal. Even outside light opera!

[Epee_Pox]

After all, God is an Englishman...

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Louweasel

The thing that occurs to be is that in my experience one never notices american's stating pride in their nationality.

There's a popular country-western song that includes the line "I'm proud to be an American". Maybe you don't hear it because Americans are advised to be low-key when abroad these days...when they aren't masquerading as Canadians, that is.

I've never heard anyone say "I'm proud to be English/I'm proud to be French/I'm proud to be Pakistani". Not to say that I or anyone else is ashamed of their nationality, we just don't ever happen to say that we're proud of it.

The circumstances seldom arise in casual conversation. Even over here. Mostly we hear it from politicians and other public figures who are peddling an agenda, not from John Q. Citizen over morning oatmeal...

Is it bound up in things like the Pledge of Allegiance and that sort of mentality?

Well, at least we don't pledge allegiance to a Dear Leader, or a Maximum Leader. Nor did our national anthem ever declare "America, America, over all, over all in the world..."

And saying that something is "un-american" - this has always bothered me a bit as regards meaning - does it mean all things american are good and true, so if you do something bad it is by definition not american?

No, it just declares that there is a set of values and beliefs which are considered to represent the American way, and a departure from or rejection of those values is said to be un-American. I don't think it means we claim exclusive right to those beliefs. But since we don't lay claim to any bad values---who would?---then anything bad would be, yes, un-American, too.

Of course, "bad" is subjective. Christain piety, for instance, is considered by many to be good, and thus "American". Not all of us cleave to that one, though...

do other nationalities try to jolly people out of grumpy or sad moods or do the rest of you just let them get on with it and express their feelings?!]

Hey, if you believe the press we get in the "world community" we deliberately TRY to make others grumpy and sad!

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by Louweasel

The thing that occurs to be is that in my experience one never notices american's stating pride in their nationality. I've never heard anyone say "I'm proud to be English/I'm proud to be French/I'm proud to be Pakistani".

Canadians actually, often assert our superiority. But then, looking at our neighbours, it's not hard.

Not to say that I or anyone else is ashamed of their nationality, we just don't ever happen to say that we're proud of it. Is it something americans feel the need to state a lot for fear that people will think otherwise? Is it bound up in things like the Pledge of Allegiance and that sort of mentality? Do any other countries have schoolchildren declare loyalty to the flag? (I've not heard of any but do tell if there are)?

We certainly don't. Flags are more a sign of age then anything else in Canada. Youth like 'em. The boomers don't really care for them. Might be the association of flags with militarism.

And saying that something is "un-american" - this has always bothered me a bit as regards meaning - does it mean all things american are good and true, so if you do something bad it is by definition not american? If I were to say something were un-British I would probably be joking about someone failing to maintain our stereotypical stiff upper lip, in a very tongue in cheek way, maybe to jolly them out of a very upset mood.

There really is nothing that is "un-Canadian". We as a people though tend to define ourselves more by what we're not then by what we are "We're not British and we're not French and we're not American".

[point - do other nationalities try to jolly people out of grumpy or sad moods or do the rest of you just let them get on with it and express their feelings?!]

We do a little of both, depending on the weather. We tend to think more in terms of manners and consideration then jollying. There are so many nationalities here that teasing can often go wrong if the other people aren't aware of it.

James.