Silly Knickers and Socks

[inigomontoya]

Hi,

One of the clubs where I fence has brought in a rule that everyone has to dress up in silly clothes instead of normal tracksuit bottoms, jackets and masks.

They say it's a FIE safety thing. I don't really buy the safety argument since I fenced someone this evening who wore the outfit and their ankles got all bruised since the silly knee socks are quite thin and fall down sometimes.

Obviously, my first instinct is to just ditch them and fence at the club that lets me wear whatever I like. Before I do, I just thought I'd ask whether there was any justification for this kind of meddling?

Inigo.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

There is justification. The knickers underlap the jacket, protecting the organs, as well as legs, in the case that a blade might break and puncture a person. Fencing knickers, while they might look sillly, are safer. Its not really about protecting against bruises, its about protecting against accidental stabbings. You could wear track pants over your knickers, though.

[mousers11]

i fence in Britain & from this month we have been told we must wear breeches ( Knickers to you) when fencing electric due to health & safety regulations ,but we are allowed to fence steam wthout them, even if it is with an electric weapon.
OK anybody no who is responsible for this stupid bit of legislation

[KD5MDK]

in the case of the UK, your NGB.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by inigomontoya

Hi,

One of the clubs where I fence has brought in a rule that everyone has to dress up in silly clothes instead of normal tracksuit bottoms, jackets and masks.

They say it's a FIE safety thing. I don't really buy the safety argument since I fenced someone this evening who wore the outfit and their ankles got all bruised since the silly knee socks are quite thin and fall down sometimes.

Obviously, my first instinct is to just ditch them and fence at the club that lets me wear whatever I like. Before I do, I just thought I'd ask whether there was any justification for this kind of meddling?

Inigo.

Well, it depends. Currently, FIE gear is the safest and is required at all FIE events, and depending on where you fence, local and national events too.

This varies by country. Germany requires FIE 800n gear, France I believe requires 350n, while the US only requires you to be wearing the fencing pants and long socks (that stay up).

As DFP mentioned above it is about safety from punctures not bruising. Some epee fencers do wear shin guards to protect their front leg.

In addition, in the US, due to insurance many clubs require the full gear for practice. Insurance companies will look for any way to not pay, and if they can prove that safety precautions weren't followed, the club is outta luck.

So, if it's really important for you to wear track pants, and you really don't care about getting a serious (possibly fatal) injury, then their just meddling and you should avoid that club.

[Kettu]

I wouldn't go as far as to call breeches "silly", but rather "traditional". Breeches reflect the gentile origins of fencing, and I find that it is a genuine honour to wear the whites. I would think that they were fashionable until the mid 19th century, and it is a shame that this fashion has been rendered obsolete.

[smurfette]

Inigo Montoya: Do you fence competitively? If so, it probably makes sense to train in what you compete in. I too find warmups more comfortable, but if I am not used to the knickers/ britches, then they become distracting when I compete. I am also pretty sure that this is not simply a "safety" issue, but also, for the club, an insurance issue: according to the insurance policies that clubs have, fencers must be dressed in full fencing gear to be covered in case of injury or death. This is policy in almost all clubs, I believe -- it's just a matter of who enforces it. I imagine if you were to just get yourself some sexy FIE knickers (Duelist ones are cool), you would not feel so annoyed about wearing them. The AFS ones are, by far, the silliest.

[KD5MDK]

Actually, they were considered very conservative and old fashioned even in the early 19th century: The Duke of Wellington was once turned away from the most exclusive London dance because he was wearing trowsers instead of breeches, but that was the only place in the country so strict.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Kettu

I wouldn't go as far as to call breeches "silly", but rather "traditional". Breeches reflect the gentile origins of fencing, and I find that it is a genuine honour to wear the whites. I would think that they were fashionable until the mid 19th century, and it is a shame that this fashion has been rendered obsolete.

I don't know if I'd call my Allstar Startex FIE fencing pants traditional, but given the current fashion trends, they do look silly out of context.

I think they are more in line with football pants, or baseball pants (you know the short ones you don't see so much, not the ankle length ones), both of which look silly. In other words, performance sports safety equipment.

[mrbiggs]

just suck it up and wear the equipment. It's kind of a pain, but it is safer. And it's a good habit to get into.

After awhile fencing with the proper equipment on, it will feel weird to fence in tracksuits.

[RITFencing]

Get a good pair of knickers, too, if you can afford it. They don't have to feel that uncomfortable. Besides, I happen to like how they look. Makes my rear look more toned than it really is.

[YAKEN]

Love the knickers, there great when we go to the bar after a good work out, the ladies think there are hot!! you know who you are ladies

[bigdawg2121]

Yeah man knickers rock, I often wear mine out of the fencing room and out to eat. Ladies love the way my butt looks in them, the high/pert look is in, knickers can only help....although really if I couldn't wear shorts in practice I'd be upset, calves this great just shouldn't go to waste. It sucks but it sounds llike you can't do much about it but not fence to spite the stupid rules. Better you than me. Good luck with whatever your decision is.

[Insipiens]

Originally Posted by mousers11

i fence in Britain & from this month we have been told we must wear breeches ( Knickers to you) when fencing electric due to health & safety regulations ,but we are allowed to fence steam wthout them, even if it is with an electric weapon.
OK anybody no who is responsible for this stupid bit of legislation

This is not actually correct. The BFA's new clothing regulations for clubs (which incidentally had a five year transitional period) state that you must where 350N (i.e. CEN1) level breeches unless fencing with size 3 blades or unless fencing with non-electric foil blades. The definition of this is:

'Non-electric foil blades' does not mean dummy electric foil blades fitted with a button. To qualify for this level of clothing standard, both fencers must be using the traditional lightweight 'steam' foil blade as, for example, used universally before the invention of electric foil.

The full UK rules can be found at the following website:
http://www.britishfencing.com/safetystandards.htm
They are pretty much standard in Europe and have been enforced in other countries for a number of years.

[gtmac]

Besides the tradition, training as you would compete, safety and insurance there's another good reason to wear the knickers instead of sweats or tracks suit and it's the same reason why football players wear short pants.

When you do any footwork in long pants your leg is pulling up all of the fabric below the knee and it can tighten around your leg just where you don't want it to. It may not seem like much, but it's more than you think.

Knickers give your leg a freedom of movement that can, with consistent practice, make your footwork crisper and your lunges deeper over any garment that extends past the knee.

[Oxi-Clean]

Well, you have to wear the "silly" knickers in socks in any major or official tournament. I personally think they can look really good, but if you have to wear them for practice that is a bit much. I personally practice in warmups w/ reg socks. Then when a tournament comes I suit up

[hpfencing]

What are you refereeing to as silly clothes, describe them please

[Morion]

Originally Posted by hpfencing

What are you refereeing to as silly clothes, describe them please

I do believe he is refering to the standard fencing pants and long socks. You know those things that we are REQUIRED to wear when fencing in a tournament.

BTW Thanks to the new rule in the UK I am on a waiting list to get my new pair of FIE Atlanta breeches from LP. Fortunately I am not in too much of a hurry yet but I hope it doesn't take too long. My current pair are starting to near their doom!

[Craig]

Wear the full protective clothes. You'll need them for tournaments anyway.

Want to wear a track suit pants? Wear them over the breeches.

The track suit pants are just too thin and provide zero protection against a puncture if a blade were to break.

Craig

[Sciurus-Rex]

Note the quasi-inflammatory use of language such as "silly" and "meddling," compounded with the new user low-message count. ... I'm not definitively declaring him as such, but it's possible I.M. is a weak troll attempt.

The question has been answered. No need to further feed the troll. Let him die of starvation.