Beating the hell out of me

[Grendel]

d8m:
Okay, one more reply and I'll let it go. You say you don't know why I felt you were lashing out. I'll explain why:

Me: how do you fencers deal with painful flicks?

Your initial response, and I quote:

"I am on roll of ranting on topics, so here goes..."

I was simply trying to see how some people handle the issue of dealing with illegal and cardable offenses with some diplomacy. But you, rather than being constructive, were eager to continue your successful "roll of ranting on topics".

[d8m]

Grendel,

I suppose it was my bad for starting out that way, but I meant nothing by it other than I'm posting much more today (and long ones) than I usually do.

And if you read my post, after that line, it was constructive advice on what your opponent was doing, why she was behaving that way. And some options to deal with it.

And, so you know, your question was a little more aggresively written than "How to deal with painful flicks". (You mentioned taking her 'outside')

Also, just to note painful hits are not illegal or cardable.
Hits with excessive brutality or vindictiveness are. Although I have rarely seen a card given for either offense. This includes guards to head, and people who wind up to hit.

And I like the name. Have you read John Gardner's book?

[Grendel]

And, so you know, your question was a little more aggresively written than "How to deal with painful flicks". (You mentioned taking her 'outside')

I understand that it is difficult to detect sarcasm when dealing with the written word, but I didn't expect anyone to take that seriously. Mea culpa.

Also, just to note painful hits are not illegal or cardable.

According to the USFA Schedule of Offenses and Penalties:

A red card can be issued for "Dangerous, violent or vindictive action".

Granted this is subjective and depends largely on the interpretation of whoever is officating, but the only way you can score in foil (ideally) is with the tip of the blade. Swinging the blade in a machete-like fashion is unacceptable. Futhermore, my hands and arms aren't even a valid target area.

Also, according to the USFA, a black card can be issued for "Deliberate brutality".

If I go home wondering if a finger on my weapon hand is broken from fencing foil that is brutal enough for me.

On a more pleasant note, yes I have read John Gardner's book, but the name was actually inspired by my appreciation for Beowulf (incidentally another great name).Thanks.

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

1. Talk is cheap.

2. She's not a good flicker if it's landing hard. Foil flicking is not the same as sabre fencing. Your touch is ALSO supposed to be soft on sabre cuts. Sabre fencers are not made of steel. They feel the hurt just like you and me. The welts go deep my friend. Deeper than the deepest sea. The smiles you see are all a facade. The sabre fencers look happy, but oh, that's a mask under the mask.


You need to tell her that her flicks are not being done properly because you are getting whipped. You can always deny bouting her for that exact reason. You can have a good flicker tell her what she's doing wrong. If she's got a stiff blade, tell her she needs to get whippy blades. She may not be able to afford FIE whippy blades, sucks for her. Don't bout her.

[swordsen]

Oh hey, brutal hits. We just finished that topic on rec.sport.fenicng.
the point I raised there, (which seemed to be accepted by many) was that yes they are illegal but they don't get called unless the fencer is reallyout on the extreme edge.
The issue is very subjective.
And as to fencing a serious wacker, I just decline wiht a comment about "I'll fence you when you can hit me without flogging me."

[Catlady]

First off, bad flicking is not gender specific, I realize no one said it was, but the hardest I have been flicked in my life was by a male fencer--I expected to find the flesh peeling off my shoulders after I finished fencing--it wasn't so much a bad flick as a good beating--we're talking flat of blade to vertebrae here. Of course if he asked if he was hurting me I denied it because I feel I need to prove that I'm tough--don't do this. If someone asks if they hurt you and they did, tell them so, or at least that they were sort of hard. The sarcastic approach is very satisfying, but may get you in trouble. I'd have to go with the rubbing and grimacing route, but don't over do it too much. Although if she's as dense as you think, maybe you will have to. Other than that, stay out of her way, so to speak, if she can't reach you, she can't flick you, or at least beat her regularly and soundly, and, in my case at least, if an action fails repeatedly, then you move on to a different action. Either that or she'll get a bruised ego and stop trying to play with the big kids. You might want to talk to others at the club to see if they have the same problem, if it's really serious for a lot of people you might want to have someone with some authority, or at least someone she's likely to listen to talk with her about it.

As for female fencers not being as agressive, I disagree. Most of the top women in my division are quite agressive, it's possible they have better technique too I guess, but they're as agressive if not more agressive than the men. I'm far from being good, but I know I like to attack, usually fairly hard and fast. Not to say that I'm out to hurt someone, but you can definitely tell I'm serious about the attack. Generally though, I do apologize if it feels, or looks, like I hit a bit hard.

That's my $.10 on that topic. As for the attitude I don't know what to do. I hate people like that too. The only thing to do is to cut them down to size by superior skill.

Incidentally, the hard flicker hated being beat by women. He hadn't taken serious fencing until he joined our club, but had worked with fencers in his native country, he was some kind of sports medicine person. He was pretty much clobbering everyone in the beginning class in the mock tournament we held. I was hoping maybe I could cut him down to size when I was asked to jump in and I didn't, but then another woman jumped into the rotation. She was and is pretty good and was then a "D", or "C", in other words out of his league, but he didn't know this. Of course, she beat him and he nearly jerked her arm out of the socket in frustration on the handshake after the bout. It was odd, if it seemed you might beat him, the flicks got harder.