Dinner *****

[Feltan]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

...in which case, it's the guy's fault.......

I think you'll make a fine wife someday. After eighteen years, my wife has this part down to a science.

Regards,
Feltan

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Feltan

I think you'll make a fine wife someday. After eighteen years, my wife has this part down to a science.

Regards,
Feltan

at which point, my finances will be so intermingled with my spouse's that i will have to blame him or her for entirely new things!!!

yay!

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I was going to comment that the discussion seemed to be ignoring any desire the women had for sex herself. But I suppose we've moved past that point.

what if the woman wants to have sex, and the guy doesn't???

[Go? Fencing?]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

what if the woman wants to have sex, and the guy doesn't???

Well, if she forces him, it's still rape. Too many people don't understand that it is possible for a woman to rape a man.

[Inquartata]

In what world does THAT ever happen?

[JackOfHearts]

It's happened... I believe I overheard about it when my mom was watching an episode of oprah...

[Peach]

I agree with MyrddinsPrecint that all too often the guy won't let me pay. They've been raised to believe that they must pay for the meal, even the young'uns. I still sometimes have to step back and let my husband pay for a meal out, even though it's all the same money (though the reverse happens in the grocery store). Now I wonder if that's why some of them believe that since they "must" pay, they should get paid for it somehow.

[BovineMadness]

I know its an age of equality and all that that we live in, but when I'm on a date I *like* to buy the food/pay for tickets/whatever. I think it's just polite. I was always brought up to do it, and so I do. That's just me. Doesn't give me, or any other guy who does the same, any right or privilege to anything else.

[Aqua_volans]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

so......... yeah.


perhaps you're shelling out money to be their geisha? but not quite either...........

*sigh*

wait a minute. you guys must realise that geisha essentially means a person of culture.

[Feltan]

Originally Posted by Aqua_volans

wait a minute. you guys must realise that geisha essentially means a person of culture.

So? Does that exclude everyone on this forum?

Regards,
Feltan

[Larrison]

Originally Posted by Peach

I agree with MyrddinsPrecint that all too often the guy won't let me pay. They've been raised to believe that they must pay for the meal, even the young'uns. I still sometimes have to step back and let my husband pay for a meal out, even though it's all the same money (though the reverse happens in the grocery store). Now I wonder if that's why some of them believe that since they "must" pay, they should get paid for it somehow.

Hmm... I was always taught it was a matter of politeness. That is, if I ask someone out to dinner, it was my offer - therefore my responsiblity to pay for both. If my date offers to split the bill, that's fine -- but it was my offer to pay for dinner.

Similarly if she calls and says "let's go out to dinner" she should be willing to foot the bill...

As for expecting more.. it wasn't offered, and its not expected, at least by any male I know... I mean, you call someone up and say "Let's go out for dinner..." -- you typically don't call up and say "Let's go out for dinner and then we'll go ****"

[achilleus]

It's so funny how a topic about women behaving in a questionable manner, gets turned into a discussion about how horrible men are...

Anyway, in regards to the paying thing, it's cultural. It's how my father was brought up, and how I was brought up. If you invite, you pay. I was also brought up that sex wasn't a form of currency....

However, I know women that have told me that if the guy doesn't pay, it's over. No if's, and's, or but's. They have gone so far to say that if they offer, the guy should still pay, and if the guy takes them up on their offer to pay, he's out. Their reasoning is that the man is still breadwinner and if he can't pay for dinner, he's not a suitable man. They even argue that the women who don't believe this, subconciously rule out the men who don't pay.

Oh, and the easy way to avoid the awkward moment of the arrival of the bill (of a first date), when you get up to use the restroom (or she's gone), simply hand a card to waiter and take of the bill ahead of time. Then when the meals finished, it's already paid and there is no weird moment whatsoever.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by achilleus

It's so funny how a topic about women behaving in a questionable manner, gets turned into a discussion about how horrible men are...

Anyway, in regards to the paying thing, it's cultural. It's how my father was brought up, and how I was brought up. If you invite, you pay. I was also brought up that sex wasn't a form of currency....

However, I know women that have told me that if the guy doesn't pay, it's over. No if's, and's, or but's. They have gone so far to say that if they offer, the guy should still pay, and if the guy takes them up on their offer to pay, he's out. Their reasoning is that the man is still breadwinner and if he can't pay for dinner, he's not a suitable man. They even argue that the women who don't believe this, subconciously rule out the men who don't pay.

I havent been dating for very long, but I know what you mean. If men are the provider of money and food, then what are the women? They're greedy little dinner *****s, thats what! Lol. Seriously, both parties should give something to the relationship, cause its not fair for guys to have to pay all the time and get nothing.

[JackOfHearts]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I havent been dating for very long, but I know what you mean. If men are the provider of money and food, then what are the women? They're greedy little dinner *****s, thats what! Lol. Seriously, both parties should give something to the relationship, cause its not fair for guys to have to pay all the time and get nothing.

I was under the impression that we were talking about a date rather then a relationship. A relationship may be a possability, but by no means a certainty after a first date.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

A relationship is simply an interaction between people.

[Rapier_wit]

Wow, that was blunt.

No one's saying the girl's don't have problems too. Personally I'd chalk up the faults to society. The girl's have it in mind that they guys are supposed to pay for dinner, yada yada, but as DFP said, the guys get nothing in return these days, though they're supposed to. Girls haven't been brought to think about anyone else other then themselves and their sorority buds. That's why I always make it a point to do something for whomever I'm going out with. One time when I was with my ex, he was out at class and I cleaned his entire dorm room. Needless to say he was very pleased.

I think it comes from both sides, again with society. Everyone, regardless of gender is being taught to live for themselves, be self-absorbed, and think nothing of others short of them doing something for you. That's wherein the problem lies, not the genders specifically.

[ChrisBrasel]

i usually split the tab. But i go out to have a fun time, and don't really expect all that much from dates.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

i kind of became obsessed with my game theory class this semester...

women are hard-wired to look for the best partner they can to support them/raise their children. (they're also looking for the best dna for the children, but that's a different story)-- so from a biological standpoint, it's completely valid that a woman would want someone who can provide.

Originally Posted by Aqua_volans

wait a minute. you guys must realise that geisha essentially means a person of culture.

literally, yes. however, the point that i was making was the vague similarity where you pay for the privilige of the company of an interesting/beautiful woman who really has no intention of being much more than a cultured pretty bauble.....

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

i kind of became obsessed with my game theory class this semester...

women are hard-wired to look for the best partner they can to support them/raise their children. (they're also looking for the best dna for the children, but that's a different story)-- so from a biological standpoint, it's completely valid that a woman would want someone who can provide.

You know that's exactly what the girls who want the guy to pay for everything said. That it's biology, and I as a guy should accept it...

To which I followed with that it's biology that guys want to spread their DNA, so they should accept the fact that guys are not going to be monogamous. Somehow, they couldn't accept that.

Whatever.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Inquartata

BTW, I never expect anything "in return" for dinner---I think myself lucky just to have gotten that far with a woman.

I somehow envison a personals ad like this:

Crusty curmudgeon, 40+, seeking the lady of his dreams.
You must like Latin proverbs, and the fact that I spend a lot of time online. I strongly dislike fashion statements, and prefer single-color clothing on everyone around me. You must like a good long argument, and accept that I take sports seriously. If this fits you, please answer to:

In-the-fourth-position, PO this newspaper


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson