Tall Epee Lefty French-grip Strategy

[Krazyhades]

Ok, basically I'm a tall left french-gripper epeeist. Mostly things are fairly easy, because it's a tough combo to beat. However, there is one person on my team who isn't a good fencer, but can beat me beacuse he uses brute-force beat attacks. Which I am bad at dealing with. When I can actually predict them accurately, I get a touch from a counter-attack, but what should I do otherwise?

Edit: I don't want posts saying "suck it up, you have everything else going your way!", but constructive ones that can help me improve my fencing.

Edit 2: He's a lefty too.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

hmmmm... keep your blade en garde in 8. It would make beats difficult for him. If he goes for a straight attack, just jump back and poke him!

[Krazyhades]

Oops! I forgot to mention that he's a lefty! That's pretty important! It makes it harder.

[veeco]

Why does it make it harder?

What are you? Lefty, or righty?

I am a tall-left-handed-french-grip epeeist, and I have had to deal with 300+ pounds (of muscle) left-handed pistol grippers, with a really strong hand and strong takes, and I have had some success with them, so maybe I can help you.

[jjefferies]

Ok, basically I'm a tall left french-gripper epeeist. Mostly things are fairly easy, because it's a tough combo to beat. However, there is one person on my team who isn't a good fencer, but can beat me beacuse he uses brute-force beat attacks. Which I am bad at dealing with. When I can actually predict them accurately, I get a touch from a counter-attack, but what should I do otherwise?

Edit: I don't want posts saying "suck it up, you have everything else going your way!", but constructive ones that can help me improve my fencing.

Edit 2: He's a lefty too.

Learn to disengage and thrust over the top. Or disengage and pick at the bottom of his hand.

[glowstix]

Ok, basically I'm a tall left french-gripper epeeist. Mostly things are fairly easy, because it's a tough combo to beat. However, there is one person on my team who isn't a good fencer, but can beat me beacuse he uses brute-force beat attacks. Which I am bad at dealing with. When I can actually predict them accurately, I get a touch from a counter-attack, but what should I do otherwise?

Edit: I don't want posts saying "suck it up, you have everything else going your way!", but constructive ones that can help me improve my fencing.

Edit 2: He's a lefty too.

both of you guys are EVIL!!! EVIL tall french grippers taking advantage of us average height fencers

by the way, those brute force beating fencers are the easiest to overcome. "brute force" typically means windup and try to disarm. all you have to do is disengage around their windup; do the disengage with a lunge so the blade makes a spiraling action toward the opponent..DON'T disengage, THEN attack..it should be all one motion. if he truly isn't that good, this should work. if this doesn't work, he's probably better than you think...

[Krazyhades]

Take note of the first edit. Constructive comments are appreciated. All others can wait for the Water Cooler.

[glowstix]

Take note of the first edit. Constructive comments are appreciated. All others can wait for the Water Cooler.

you cut me off while i was editing..lol!!

[Krazyhades]

sorry
Good advice. From everyone, not just Glow.

[mrbiggs]

What specific moves is he winning on? In other words, how is he taking the blade, and where is he finishing?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Ok, basically I'm a tall left french-gripper epeeist. Mostly things are fairly easy, because it's a tough combo to beat. However, there is one person on my team who isn't a good fencer, but can beat me beacuse he uses brute-force beat attacks. Which I am bad at dealing with. When I can actually predict them accurately, I get a touch from a counter-attack, but what should I do otherwise?

Edit: I don't want posts saying "suck it up, you have everything else going your way!", but constructive ones that can help me improve my fencing.

Edit 2: He's a lefty too.

Relatively short stocky RH ME fencer here.

Try feeding him the blade - goad him into trying to beat/bind/disarm your blade, while you are awaiting that very thing. When he falls for it, disengage at last moment and counterattack. Then you will be able to predict them more accurately, since you set them up yourself.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Fechter1]

Standard advice here (posting a french grip, facing a strong beat) would be to play an absence of blade game. I know it sounds a bit too simple and a bit too obvious, but if he's beating you on strong beats (which, I assume, include strong parries), don't give him a blade to beat.
With the french grip, you already have the distance advantage. Being left-handed, you sometimes have the angle advantage as well (when fencing less experienced fencers, usually). Use them.
And remember, strong beats usually mean big openings on the back side of those beats/parries. Practice your disengages. Present the blade, deceive the take/beat/parry, and you have the proverbial broad side of the barn, especially if you time your footwork right.

Let us know how these pieces of advice turn out for you?

[veeco]

So, one of the interesting things here is that both opponents are left handed.

The difficulty that you might be experiencing is that in that situation, your disengages have to go in a different way that you might be used to. For instance, to deceive a beat in 2nd from your opponent, you have to disengage into his 6th, but the direction in which the blade goes is different than if he was right handed, and might be a little "unnatural" to you.

You need to practice doing tight disengages in both directions. One way to do this is when you are fencing a right hander, to substitute the beat from your opponent to a different one. For instance, in my example above, to get used to a lefty beating in 2nd, you want to practice with a right-hander who beats in 7th rather than 2nd. The direction is then the same. The more you'll do it, the more used to it you will become.

Another interesting thing that was mentionned above and that cannot be stressed enough is that a proper disengage should be done as the same time as an extension. If you are just evading the parry, it's not enough, as you are not progressing towards the target.

When you don't progress towards the target, the situation hasn't really changed for both your opponent and yourself, the beat has been evaded, but you are not threatening your opponent's target more than before. Some sloppy opponents will actually make a large advance at the same time than when they beat, and those are easy to disengage, as they basically provide you with the extension as part of their footwork, but a good fencer will not do that on their beat, and therefore you will need to take charge and do the extension in order to be successful.

[chiz]

In addition to what Veeco has said, I adjust the distance a little, his prep for the take may give you an opening to the inside of his wrist, if you are close enough.

Adjust the distance closer, on the take, open the distance, disengage to the outside of his wrist, in one tempo. In, out disengage in.

These are both attacks from cues given by your opponent. You have to get off first into his opening target. A lefty with the skill of Veeco or D+ may not give you a very large opening and it will not last very long.

Add a counter attack to each and the bag of tricks gets a little bigger in your favor.

Chiz

[Krazyhades]

I'm readig all these posts and the advice looks great. I have practice tonight, so when I get back from it I'll tell you all how it went against this guy. Hopefully, this time I will have a decisive win!

[Krazyhades]

Well, all was going will until I let go of the blade when I had lunged into him (to prevent from acutally hurting him too badly. It was in that fleshy part above the hip), and he tried to parry. And I didn't have a blade. So he SMACKED my had with the blade. Hard. Really hard. So now my hand is in agony...

But until then I was doing pretty well.
BTW, a big problem with this guy, when he parries, he takes the blade and forces it way out of the way. And you can't retract your hand or retreat fast enough to prevent a touch.

[remise]

I find that distance and the ability to do tight disengages is vital. Once you have the tiny disengages down, work on making them faster. Nothing frustrates an opponent more than someone able to move around their blade and hit them while they are still in preparation.

[veeco]

Well, all was going will until I let go of the blade when I had lunged into him (to prevent from acutally hurting him too badly. It was in that fleshy part above the hip), and he tried to parry. And I didn't have a blade. So he SMACKED my had with the blade. Hard. Really hard. So now my hand is in agony...

But until then I was doing pretty well.
BTW, a big problem with this guy, when he parries, he takes the blade and forces it way out of the way. And you can't retract your hand or retreat fast enough to prevent a touch.

So you've hit him, the light is on, and you release your blade (bad thing to do, IMO, but whatever), and then he smacks you in the hand?

Looks like we have a bully, or a completely brainless ogre here...

You could try and tell him: "no matter what happens, after you've been hit by someone, it's over, get over it, and try to do better next touch."

Anyway, I am starting to think that this guys "powerful beats" are nothing more than random flailing about of his blade in order to look impressive. You have the advantage as you have a brain, just try not to get hurt...

[Durando]

Anyway, I am starting to think that this guys "powerful beats" are nothing more than random flailing about of his blade in order to look impressive. You have the advantage as you have a brain, just try not to get hurt...

Me too. Someone said earlier that you should simple play a derobement game. The fact that this is a traditional/simple answer should tell you that you're on the right track. The more I learn about épée, the less I know. That is, every bit of so-called complexity that I've learned, or thought I learned, over the years is usually trumped by a simpler action. If the guy is beating your blade this hard just withdraw your hand and maintain a very flat guard. This should enable you to disengage very quickly and it *should* draw his hand out to reach for the beat. Once he does this, he'll probably be leaning into his attack which should open up some low-line opportunities.

For what it's worth, a proper beat is very sharp and very small. (Watch Italian and Russian fencers). It *does* work v. French grip fencers, but it usually is a quick, almost throwaway attack to the hand--at least the way I practice it. Nothing should impede you from employing the same tactic, although I susupect it's a little harder to achieve with a French grip, va savoir. (Yeah, Veeco, I'm feeling the pull of the dark side).

[chiz]

...
(Watch Italian and Russian fencers). It *does* work v. French grip fencers, but it usually is a quick, almost throwaway attack to the hand--at least the way I practice it. Nothing should impede you from employing the same tactic, although I susupect it's a little harder to achieve with a French grip, va savoir. (Yeah, Veeco, I'm feeling the pull of the dark side).

NO, NO, NO VEECO'S NOT A FRENCH GRIP GUY - TELL ME IT AIN'T SO!

Chiz