Change for the better?

[rcmatthews]

1st, The Diaz/Forbus bout at the Rose is not exactly an example of premier sabre fencing, no offense to any of the involved parties.

2nd, Limiting the scoring part of the weapon to the trenchant, back third, and point changes nothing. Nobody makes an accidental contact with the lower 2/3ds of the back of the blade.

You have to develop a certain feel to watch sabre. It becomes much easier to see who had the attack with experience. By the rules, foil should look much the same way. If anything, the attack is more clearly defined in sabre than in foil.

I am quite sure that people would watch large men swinging big curved swords at each other on TV (I would), but there would be an overly large proportion of moustache wax users participating.

I don't care if non-fencers can follow the action. Nor, for that matter, does it make a difference if foil fencers can follow the action. That means there is a problem with them, not with sabre.

[Feraud]

I think modern sabre is the easiest of the three weapons to watch. Especially with slo-mo replay.

Naw
Epee for sure
Big weapon easy to see on the screen.
No rules to explain.

The slow-mo replay in Saber makes me think, “hey I would have given the touch to the other guy”

[sabreteur]

I love the new timing in sabre. If anything, I'd say tighten it more. The thrill of stealing a point away from my opponent with a well timed remise is just too fun for words.

[Feltan]

I love the new timing in sabre. If anything, I'd say tighten it more. The thrill of stealing a point away from my opponent with a well timed remise is just too fun for words.

You should be fencing epee.

Regards,
Feltan

[Inquartata]

Frankly, I wish they would just settle on a set of rules and conventions, whatever they might be, and then LEAVE THINGS THE H*** ALONE! I am tired of the constant tinkerings, each of which necessitate learning a different game to some extent. I can live with the imperfections of the current state of affairs. Please, enough experimentation already. Leave well enough alone.

[Feltan]

Frankly, I wish they would just settle on a set of rules and conventions, whatever they might be, and then LEAVE THINGS THE H*** ALONE! I am tired of the constant tinkerings, each of which necessitate learning a different game to some extent. I can live with the imperfections of the current state of affairs. Please, enough experimentation already. Leave well enough alone.

Bah! You are living up to your billing as an old curmudgeon!

Change is inevitable. It always happens. Better to be the pilot than the passenger.

Regards,
Feltan

[thud]

My worry is that if we reinstate a device that requires some minimium force to hit with, unless it is quite slight and always works people will start hitting too hard in an attempt to "make sure" it goes off, and then many women and non-masochistic men will leave the sport and sabre fencing will be poorer for it.

I assume that if the capteur came back, it would work! Fencers would know how much force was required and use it. Any weapon can be painful when not employed well.

[I'll never forget this time my coach (my coach!) flicked my shoulder during a drill. It burned!!]

So what's there to be done about the point-in-line? Can we put a button at the tip? That idea's not that appealing to me, honestly, but what else is there? Would the PIL be out of sabre forever? Would fencers go for a special condition for sabre in which a touch can be scored without a light, provided it is done by thrust or PIL?

[KD5MDK]

Or we could just leave things as they are, and everything would be fine.

As it is, sabre is the least complicated weapon, electrically, and the one that has the fewest technical problems. Any complification will certainly lead to more problems.

[Inquartata]

Bah! You are living up to your billing as an old curmudgeon!

And that will never change! Hah!

Change is inevitable. It always happens.

Pish, death is inevitable, too, but why seek it unnecessarily?

[Inquartata]

Or we could just leave things as they are, and everything would be fine.

As it is, sabre is the least complicated weapon, electrically, and the one that has the fewest technical problems. Any complification will certainly lead to more problems.

Don't let M. Roch hear you.

[jeff]

(Been busy, coming late to the party)

I've fenced dry sabre, and I have to put my position is "something's gained, but something's lost, too".

The use of an impartial machine is a big improvement (the 'blind judges' issue). Visual judging of fast sabre was always subject to a high error rate under the best circumstances, and got worse when judges were tired or biased. Even with unconcious bias: the touch you see is the touch you expect to see. With bias, which happened a lot, sabre could be a travesty - no matter what the fencer did, they were not going to get a touch. Electric did a lot to reduce this.

I don't place a lot of attention to the issue of hitting with the flat, as there was plenty of that during the dry days. Many top fencing masters taught belly cuts that way, for example Santelli and Elthes. So, there's nothing new there. Argue that it's wrong if you want, but not that the box added it or that it's new in the last 25 years.

I miss blade actions and parry-riposte and counter-riposte phrases, but frankly there was a lot of ugly fencing too: the running attacks that ended with both fencers hitting as hard as possible to make sure the judges saw it (or to make the other guy flinch). A primary reason I stayed focused on foil even though I enjoyed fencing sabre - pain sucks.

I would argue that things are better now, and probably could still be better yet. Yeah, yeah, a wishy-washy middle of the road answer!

[Schiavona]

I agree with Holly, Mark and Jeff. The only time I bled during a fencing tournament was in dry sabre-through a heavy canvas jacket! When sabre changed to what it is now I had long given up on it, Jeff is right-pain sucks!

In my mind, I reconciled the loss of swordsmanship issue by thinking, "Hey! It's a lightsabre now." I truely think that technology will be able to bring back (or allow for the first time) fencing with the edges of the blade. Maybe some kind of carbonfiber blade with metal inserts.

And not having to deal with the four idiots is worth almost anything!