Different types of jackets?

[rcmatthews]

If "most people on the other side of the pond" jumped off a bridge...?

Just an illustration that there are lots of people that choose not to wear a jacket with package strap.

[DHCJr]

Not to burst the bubble here, but the USFA rules do consider the groin to be a "vital" region (as per Appendix A). Since your sabre lame isn't designed specifically for safety (that's why you wear a jacket AND a lame) you're proboably going to be hard pressed to convince an armorer that your jacket is legal regarding safety concerns.

Rules aside, do you really want LESS equipment protecting your junk? Get the flap with the crotch strap, there's a reason it was added and why most of the population uses it.

I'm one Armorer who would pass it and could probably name a dozen U.S. top Armorers. Also you might check the rules yourself and look at the appendix. It shows the breaches that protect the groin area. Also, for me if I were to get a complaint from another fencer using your argument, I would use a hard object and check if that person really followed the rules. How much more protection would an Epee jacket help the groin area if you are wearing a cup as Required by the rules.

[HDG]

I would use a hard object and check if that person really followed the rules. How much more protection would an Epee jacket help the groin area if you are wearing a cup as Required by the rules.

Which rule lets armorers whack people in the nuts?

[Purple Fencer]

Which rule lets armorers whack people in the nuts?

M.25....the catchall!

[DHCJr]

How do you think referees check for breast protectors? Would you rather they grab a feel to check that you are wearing a cup?

If an armorer questions the use of a Sabre jacket, ask them why it was perfectly safe when it was dry Sabre and now with the lame which offers at least the same amount of protection, it is no longer safe.

[HDG]

How do you think referees check for breast protectors? Would you rather they grab a feel to check that you are wearing a cup?

I'd rather they stay away from my... um... equipment and just focus upon my equipment, or at least buy me a few drinks first.

[DHCJr]

Then how should they check for this required equipment? Should they have you strip down to show you are wearing it. The rapping with an inanimate object is the most impersonal, while grabbing gets a little too personal.

[Purple Fencer]

Then how should they check for this required equipment? Should they have you strip down to show you are wearing it. The rapping with an inanimate object is the most impersonal, while grabbing gets a little too personal.

Well now....that depends on who's doing the grabbing!!

If it's Sandra D'Asaro, go RIGHT ahead.....if it's Dave Clark....uhh....no thanks.

[HDG]

Then how should they check for this required equipment? Should they have you strip down to show you are wearing it. The rapping with an inanimate object is the most impersonal, while grabbing gets a little too personal.

We are really deviating from the subject of the thread, but wouldn't it be reasonable to have the fencer demonstrate the presence of the required protection by doing what you suggest him/herself?

My more serious question is whether this kind of inspection is the responsibility of the armorer or the referee.

[DHCJr]

It would definitely be the referee as this is required only when they are fencing. When the normal breast protectors were the hub caps, the normal way of testing was as I suggested, but a few referees did as you suggested.

What is good for the gander is good for the goose. Even though it is in the rule book, it has never really been enforced. It is the Old World attitude, men can take it, but we must protect the ladies.

[FencingKitten]

I was told by a certified referee instructor that the "sabre jackets" are legal for modern electric sabre competition, provided they have the requisite 10 cm of overlap in both the enguard and lunge positions.

That's what I enforce. Easy enough.

[DHCJr]

Not only are 'Sabre' jackets legal for Sabre. They are also legal for Foil also. Only Epee requires the 'Full' jacket with strap (M.25.4).

If a referee ever disallows them for Foil and Sabre. Ask them to show the rule that bans them and then show them M.25.4.

[Purple Fencer]

Not only are 'Sabre' jackets legal for Sabre. They are also legal for Foil also. Only Epee requires the 'Full' jacket with strap (M.25.4).

If a referee ever disallows them for Foil and Sabre. Ask them to show the rule that bans them and then show them M.25.4.

Huh...the first time I asked anyone about the legality of the old sabre jacket, I was told they HAD to have the cuissard.

Who told me? Larry Dunn....a sabre REF!