Percentage for recall?

[Sciurus-Rex]

What's an appropriate target percentage of membership signatures necessary to initiate a petition for an potentially expensive executive recall vote? The current mark is 10 percent.

[fencerontheline]

Originally Posted by Sciurus-Rex

What's an appropriate target percentage of membership signatures necessary to initiate a petition for an potentially expensive executive recall vote? The current mark is 10 percent.

This poll is flawed.

[dr.lutz]

The recall provisions necessitate 10% of the voting membership, those who are 18 years old or above.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Yes. That's right, Lutzy. I'm pretty sure we all know that by now.

Pretty darned low number, too. Heck, almost any ol' wingnut cell of malcontents could imagine drumming up a recall at 10 percent.

The USFA should move that mark higher.

[KD5MDK]

You think it's easy to get 2,500 people across the country, including all sections and a majority of divisions in each section? I think it's hard enough as it is, and won't be met any time soon.

[Schiavona]

If the recall has so much high level support, why doesn't 2/3 of the Board just vote her out? At a guess, the recall has the support of less than two thirds of the Board.

[fencingaddict]

since generally 20% do 80% then 10% is a good number!

[Steve Khinoy]

Originally Posted by Schiavona

If the recall has so much high level support, why doesn't 2/3 of the Board just vote her out? At a guess, the recall has the support of less than two thirds of the Board.

The Board can't vote the President out. The President can be impeached for cause and voted out by a majority of a duly consituted Congress.

The President can be recalled by the following procedure, as stated in the Bylaws -- I'll quote it later in this post. Notice that the President *may* be suspended by a two-thirds vote of the Board on *receipt* of the valid petitions, and that the recalled officer can be a candidate for the position.

Steve Khinoy
Bylaws quoted below


9.Section Recall of Officers. Any officer may be recalled by the membership as provided in this section. An officer shall be recalled upon:
(i) the affirmative vote of two-thirds of the Congress; or
(ii) upon petition of not less than 10 percent of the members of the USFA who are eligible to vote in the election for which the petition is intended, provided that there must be at least 10 petitioners from each Section and at least two petitioners from a majority of the Divisions in each Section.

b) Upon recall, a special election shall be conducted promptly in accordance with the election procedures provided by these Bylaws, with such appropriate modifications to the dates and schedules there stated as the Board of Directors shall prescribe. The recalled officer may be a candidate for the vacant office if nominated by the Nominating Committee or by meeting petition requirements provided elsewhere in these Bylaws.

c) Upon the authentication of qualifying petitions, the recalled officer may be suspended from office by a two-thirds vote of the Board of Directors, in which event the Executive Committee shall promptly meet to appoint one of the Vice Presidents to fill the office until a recall election has been held and the office has thus been filled by the voting membership. If the officer recalled was a Vice President, the office shall remain vacant until an election has been held and a successor qualified.

[Schiavona]

Thanks Steve! I should read things more carefully. It would be amusing if the Board didn't vote to remove her once they receive the petitions.

Notice, I didn't say good or bad, just amusing.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

You think it's easy to get 2,500 people across the country, including all sections and a majority of divisions in each section? I think it's hard enough as it is, and won't be met any time soon.

Note that the required number isn't anywhere close to 2,500. USFA membership drops significantly each August and grows throughout the year (due to the nature of our membership calendar and the fact that many people are lazy and don't bother renewing until they absolutely need to). So the current USFA membership is likely well below the 24,000 that we finished with last July.

More importantly, only those eligible to vote get counted. Look around your local clubs. How many of those USFA members are under 18? That's right, they don't count towards the total from which 10% is required.

I believe Dr. Lutz mentioned that s/he believes the required total to be less than 900 signatures.

If you figure that more than half of the USFA is <18 that doesn't look like too unreasonable (in a correctness sense) a number, although I suspect that it's a bit low. I'd guess that it's a lot closer to accurate than 2,500.

If, as has been reported, the petition gained 600 signatures in Pittsburgh, then 900 shouldn't be a difficult hurdle to clear. I don't have any information on how accurate those reports are.

-B

[oso97]

It got 600 signatures in Pittsburgh? I find that interesting! I heard words of it (actually heard it discussed quite a bit), but I sure didn't see anyone walking around gathering signatures, nor was I directly approached. Neither was anyone that I know from my region.

But then again, I'm not really surprised, since its typical of the people on the coasts to overlook those of us in the middle.

[Sciurus-Rex]

I've said it in another thread and I'll repeat it here: Confirmation of each signature's validity. Gotta be done.

[mrbiggs]

If you consider that there are a few thousand fencers, coaches, parents, and other USFA members just at Summer Nationals each year, 10% is probably pretty low.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Of the few who bothered to respond to this poll so far, about half believe the percentage should be higher than 10 percent. Definitive? (shrug) At least worth further consideration.

[Morion]

Well just for the record I think it should be 50% +1. If a majority want her out then it should be voted on. 10% is just too small a number.

[Philistine]

I don't have a problem with the recall # being 10%.

However, I would like to see the bylaws changed to do a recall petition more like California's recall procedure: Once the requisite # of signatures is received, an election is held--the ballot is in 2 parts: (1) Yes or no for the recall, and (2), Assuming the recall passes, who do you vote for to replace the recalled officer.

AIUI, currently what would happen if there is enough signatures is that that the nominating committee will meet, and nominate someone (and that someone could be Nancy Anderson). If no one else wants to run, that's the new President. If someone who was not nominated (including Ms. Anderson) wants to run, they need to get 2% of the voting membership to sign petitions (apparently 200 members), including 25 each from three seperate sections.

So--though the recall # itself is fairly low--the # to have the recalled person appear on the ballot after recall is even lower.

--Philistine

[Sciurus-Rex]

Originally Posted by Philistine

I don't have a problem with the recall # being 10%.

However, I would like to see the bylaws changed to do a recall petition more like California's recall procedure: Once the requisite # of signatures is received, an election is held--the ballot is in 2 parts: (1) Yes or no for the recall, and (2), Assuming the recall passes, who do you vote for to replace the recalled officer.

YES!!!
But that process is lacking here, especially when the recall group has suggested that their choice for replacement be put in office without question. (If you read their earlier arguments on this board, that was their response to the problem of a costly mail election. To paraphrase: "We wouldn't need one if Sam is chosen unopposed.")

A recall petition number is subjective -- I'd be happy with at least 15-20 percent, myself -- but it should lead to a larger, full-member vote. NOT the lynch mob getting their handpicked candidate without challenge.

You may have noticed I'm not supporting anyone in particular; I'm actually just against the form this process has taken, and the backstabbing bully politics that drive it. ... With decent recall bylaws and a followup election, heck, recall away with 10 percent! I'll be there with bells on my shoes! But not like this, and not for the reasons promoted.

When you look at it that way, 10 percent isn't nearly enough.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Let me jump in here and help out Dr. Lutz:

"But that's the way the by-laws are written!"

Philistine: should the recall prove successful, I would suggest that you draft an amendment to the bylaws to amend the recall petition rules in just such a way as to allow an up or down vote of the rank and file...ala California.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

The Swedish constitution provides for a way of recalling a member of govt. - if a majority of the parliament votes him out, he is booted. However, if that member happens to be the prime minister, then the whole govt. is automatically booted.

Maybe something similar would be useful in the USFA bylaws.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson