attacks

[Scaramouche]

I feel like I only have one attack and that's a beat attack. This is frustrating to me because I think it makes me more of a target to the people I fence because I'm so darned predictable! OK barring the fact that yes I have only been fencing just over two months, has anyone else ever felt like this in the early stages of their fencing careers?

While we're talking about being predictable, I've been told several times that I overuse the parry-4 (actually that it's all I use!) but usually I don't feel like there's anything else I can really use! Anyone got any suggestions for getting out of my rut? I tried some stuff the other night but the only result was my coach stopping the bout and giving me a weird look and going, "OK well I don't know what THAT was . . . ." <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Boo Boo Too]

Scaramouche

There is nothing wrong with practicing a beat attack to improve it. There is certainly nothing wrong with a beat attack. If a beat attack doesn't work then it is often that:
1: Your timing itself is too predictable (when you make the beat).
2: Your attack off of the beat is too predictable (are you always doing a beat attack direct?) and/or
3: Where you are landing your hit is always predictable (chest?).

Some things which you might like to try:
1: Vary the timing of your attack:
- don't always beat at the same time (when the president says "fence", do you tend to look for the beat straight away?).
- don't always attack after a beat (sometimes just beat and threaten - make your opponent unsure about when you are actually going to attack).
- sometimes a beat, broken time attack can work (beat, bring your arm back them attack).. can be a bit risky though.
2: Vary your attack off of the blade:
- beat disengage.
- beat one two.
- beat doubley (sp?), etc.
3: Vary the line that you finish in (not always chest):
- beat disengage low-line.
- beat disengage high-line.
- beat flick to shoulder/back.

Another important thing is to throw in the occasional direct attack (with no beat). If you constantly beat before an attack, your oponent will learn this signal and may counter and block you out or just avoid your blade as you beat. If you do a straight attack, you may catch them out.

You don't need to do that many moves to be good: timing, accuracy, speed and - very importantly - knowing what to do at the right time is much more important. If you look at women fencing foil in the world championship, they don't do anything really fancy they just do it very well (lots of practice).

The beat attack is one of my favourite moves (always has been), but bringing more variety into what you do with it (a few suggestions above, but I am sure that your coach can advise you much better) should help make you less predictable.

Don't let your enthusiasm to improve very quickly spoil your enjoyment of fencing: practice hard at what you know and enjoy it :-)

Boo
(who is just recovering from getting stabbed in the ribs during her lesson tonight: fast parry riposte carte opposition whilst rapidly closing distance - bad thing to practice without a jacket or a chest protector :-( ).

[edew]

Here's my advice.

Treat fencing, especially the practice bouting times, as a game and not as a life-or-death situation.

The name of the game is, "Control your body."

Control your body to do things you want done. Think to yourself to make a circle-six parry. Then do it when the opportunity comes. Think to yourself to make a feint-disengage attack (i.e.,
no beats). Then do it when the opportunity comes.

The second part of the game is "Control your opponent." This is where footwork and distance comes into play. By making advances and retreats, you set up your opponent to allow you to do the first part, make parry six, or fake parry-six-parry-eight riposte to the back (or wherever you want to hit).

That's the name of the game, control yourself, then control your opponent. It's not about scoring or winning or hitting someone with the tip. It's all about self-control and control of another person.

If you can get self-control, you're on your way to an A rating. If you can control the other person, you're on your way to a gold medal in Athens.

[Craig]

I wrote an article in the training section of the site on the use of beats, etc. When you have a chance, go take a look at: <a href="http://www.fencing.net/drills/drills11.html." target="_blank">http://www.fencing.net/drills/drills11.html.</a> I would also suggest taking a look at the other drills at the "Training Tips" section, linked at the top menu bar of the forum pages as well as on the fencing.net home page. (The articles are in reverse chronological order.)

Most beginning fencers like to always take the blade before making an attack. Taking the blade makes you feel secure - you now know where it is and you have established priority. This does make your use of beats 1-dimensional and also lets your opponent go on auto-pilot. ("Did she beat my blade? No, well then I don't have to worry about an attack. Hey, she beat my blade, that means the attack is coming!")

Eric gives very good advice here. Think about what you want to do. See yourself doing it. Feel yourself executing the action. Then you'll be much better at all of your actions.

In your attacks, try going without taking the blade sometimes. Try getting your distance in close and catch your opponent off-balance - then you can hit with a simple direct lunge. (There is nothing more satisfying than getting a touch on a straight lunge with no beat or disengage. It is just sweet. )

Most of all, experiment and chart your progress. You are asking good questions, so you are on your way.

Cheers,
Craig

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

<img src="graemlins/freak4.gif" border="0" alt="[Freak2]" />
Diversion.
1. Shake your belly.
2. Lunge.

You don't have to beat before your attack. The belly shake will divert their eyes to your belly. <img src="graemlins/dunce.gif" border="0" alt="[Dunce]" />

Enjoy. <img src="graemlins/jawa.gif" border="0" alt="[Jawa]" />

[Prometheus]

There are tons of intersting things that can be done whith a beat including some absloutely devious absence of blade attcks. But that will all come with time.
If you feel like you are getting traped into one move it may advantageous to place some self imposed restrictions on your fencing during practice bouts. Speifically, attempt to fence a bout with no beats at all. Forget that the beat is even an option. Practice is the time to develop your weak techniques. It is worth it to get creamed for a while while you develop weaker parts of your game. If you take part of practice to focus on your weaker points when the tournament comes around you will be much more well rounded. Just remember, the final laugh will be yours as you look down from the medal stand at the folks who use all the best stuff at practice and never improve because of it...

Cheers

[Pierfrancesco]

good advice edew.

i find myself parrying all over the place without much thought to it!

i try and do different attacks, so as not to be too predictable, although being a newbie theres not many different things i can do

i quite like the beat attack too scar

[Scaramouche]

[quote]Originally posted by edew:
<strong>
Think to yourself to make a circle-six parry. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I keep hearing the term "circle-[number] parry" and I'm not sure I know exactly what it is! Is it like a disengage and then a parry?

Thanks for the great advice btw You and everybody else! As usual I feel so much better reading people's responses here and I know it'll help me out! THANK YOU!

[its_me_mango]

i believe it is a disengage.
now see page 34 fundamentals, epee, and look at the list of four directions, i think there was a translation error: number four should be low outside: eight and second. unless i'm wrong, please post.

[Scaramouche]

FENCING TONIGHT WAS A LESSON INDEEDY!

I totally lost it. Was getting carried away all over the place. No point control, no parries, just wild blade throwing. My back hand even got in there sometimes and THAT disturbed me most of all.

I am so determined not to do that again! Sheesh! <img src="graemlins/dunce.gif" border="0" alt="[Dunce]" />

[edew]

[quote]Originally posted by Scaramouche:
<strong>

I keep hearing the term "circle-[number] parry" and I'm not sure I know exactly what it is! Is it like a disengage and then a parry?

Thanks for the great advice btw You and everybody else! As usual I feel so much better reading people's responses here and I know it'll help me out! THANK YOU! </strong><hr></blockquote>


If you don't know what a circle-six parry is, I suggest you refrain from posting your questions here for about six months, wherein during that time, take some more lessons. Perhaps twice a week. Start with group classes and graduate to private lessons.

Your other remarks on this thread suggest to me that you're fencing too soon. You're not ready.

At the very least, you need to know the lingo.

[Scaramouche]

No edew that's just a term we haven't discussed yet. I'm asking my questions on here to find out about stuff I don't know about. One can only learn by asking questions, right?

[Stryder]

Scaring Mice -

Don't listen to edew. He fears the new guys because they beat him at foil and he doesn't know why. Ask all the questions you want. There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.

Beat attacks are often a crutch for beginning-intermediate fencers. Force yourself to attack without taking the blade. When your opponent is not attacking you, what do you gain by beating the blade? Too often you are only "waking the sleeping giant" by beating the blade. A feint is better in most circumstances.

Circular parrys: This is the reason you don't use any parries but the four, (and the circular four as it turns out)
Assuming you're right-handed, when your opponent's blade is to the left of yours, you parry four. When it is on the right of yours, you swing your blade through the four and "circle" around to hit it into the four.

A circular parry four (often called a counter-four) is simply hitting your opponent's blade from the other (unexpected) side.

Check out some parry descriptions and definitions on <a href="http://www.geocities.com/fencinglessons/3.html" target="_blank">www.geocities.com/fencinglessons/3.html</a>

[edew]

[quote]Originally posted by Scaramouche:
<strong>No edew that's just a term we haven't discussed yet. I'm asking my questions on here to find out about stuff I don't know about. One can only learn by asking questions, right? </strong><hr></blockquote>

If you were to post, "Hey, what's a circle-six parry?", then it's fair to ask and fair to answer. If you were to post, "I've never heard of a circle-six parry, what is that?" It's an indication that you need to get along with your course program just a little longer. It will be explained to you then.

The former indicates you were taught it, but you either forgot, or it wasn't fully explained to you. The latter indicates you're not there yet, which means...wait until you get there.

[Scaramouche]

I'm a firm believer in the statement that there are no stupid questions. I'm an inquisitive person, I ask questions about everything. I asked about circle parries because I'm interested in fencing and I'm trying to familiarize myself with its workings so I can become more comfortable with it. Just because I asked doesn't mean I'm trying to jump ahead of my skill level--which I know is very low at this point--it just means I'm trying to learn about it so I'm more prepared when I get there. Same as I ask my coaches what binds and fleches are. I don't try to do them and frankly at this point I don't want to and I know I can't anyway. My point is, I ask questions about what I don't know because I want to know because I really like something and really care. I don't believe in "waiting till I get there" to know about it. To do, yes. To know, no. Life is all about questions, and I'm here to ask and ask and ask until your brain explodes and you just can't stand the thought of me anymore! Capice?

[Haze]

Does anyone remember asking questions as a kid, only to be told you were too young, or you would find out when you're older?

When someone says something like this to someone less experienced, seems to me it is like saying "sorry, you're not big enough to know that".

It can be really disheartening when you are trying to learn and someone stands in your way and says you are not experienced enough to be told the answers.

Both Wannabe and myself were asking questions on this board long before we started fencing. I stopped joining in with the fencing discussion here since one or two people treated me like this - I'm glad Scaramouche has the confidence to turn around and bite back!

[Peach]

When I started fencing a few years ago, one of the first things I did was find the fencing newsgroup (rec.sport.fencing) and read it assiduously. Very quickly, because I'm loquacious,I started posting questions. People answered them, even though it turned out they were questions many others had asked before and if I had waited a month or so my coach would have answered them for me in the normal course of things. Thank heavens they did! Sometimes I get impatient with hearing the same questions I asked in the beginning, and I know they will get answered in the course of things by others, and if I'm really impatient I just don't answer them but let others, more patient (or less jaded) than I, jump in.

--Delia

[its_me_mango]

<img src="graemlins/evild.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil]" /> how evil, edew how could you discourage this question....

a circle parry with the required reposte, which we all neglect to perform, because we SIMPLY CANNOT BELIEVE we were able to parry the darn thing out of our way, means exactly what you said, to circle the other persons blade with yours and put your point on the target. it could be a circle 6 a circle 4 or wherever you are able to actually circle the blade without getting hung up, but i haven't seen any circle parries in 1 for example, but who knows, SOMEONE OUT THERE will do one.

[edew]

To quote from that commercial for ESPN or whatever, "There's no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions..."

My assertion is that rather than getting a hard-to-explain by text answer, just wait yer gol-dang two weeks and learn it right the first time. Otherwise, you'll get some answer here which you'll most likely misinterpret because you're not going to properly visualize what the writer is writing (parry 6, 4, 7, 8, etc., aren't exactly something that's visual for someone completely uninititated into the sport; we could've said, parry bizmat and parry dumpf-knot and you'd probably won't know any better).

So, just hold your horses, continue with your classes, DON'T fence competitively for about six to ten more weeks, learn it right in time, and you'll enjoy the sport more. Otherwise, you'll blow through it just like the thousands of others who come through it with a wrong impression in their minds.

Remember: practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. You get some hard-to-explain answer here and try it out, you're set back several weeks. Guaranteed.

[Inquartata]

I have to agree with Eric. As frustrating as it may be to be told to "wait awhile, it's for you own good", it isn't as frustrating as the extra work you'll have to do if you overload your body's learning circuits by trying to do everything at once. ( Ask me how I know this. )