What do you like/ dislike about Christmas?

[Fencergrl]

Okay... I admit it it's the Eve of Christmas Eve and I'm all excited so I'm starting a Christmas thread.

What do you like/ dislike about Christmas? Does your family have any special traditions?

I am really looking forward to getting together with my family.

1) I like the flying leaps as the kids greet me or when they get something they really like.

2) The family soccer game we always play when there is a gathering of more than 2 of us.

3) I love sitting down to the candlelight dinner with my family around me. Seeing the turkey, homemade bread, and veggies crowding the table with the Christmas tree in the background.

4) I love cuddling the kids as I read them stories and making up parts as I go along. Then chatting with them because both the kids and I are too excited to sleep.

5) Visiting (or calling) family and friends between Christmas and New Years. Catching up with what’s going on in their lives.

[VERITAS]

a short list...

Good things: - religious significance
- family gathering
- no school/work
- presents
- food

Bad things:
- no fencing
- commercialization
- crummy weather
- spread of infectious diseases

[Amadeus]

i hate christmas carols. i'm sorry, but we have to face the facts. there's only 10 or 20 of these songs, maximum, and we hear them again and again over the season. and again and again. most of these songs aren't even especially good or worth listening to.

then, i hate santa hats. these things are getting way to common. it used to be that wearing a santa hat meant that you were a goofy person, half dressing up as santa for christmas. now everyone does it, and it's just annoying.

huh. perhaps this should go in the soapbox...

[The Terran]

Good
-No school/work
-Food

Bad
-The general insincerity and greedyness involved in gift giving/receiving
-comercialization
-People who tell me "Happy Holidays" because they don't know if I'm Christian of not
-Political correctness (see above)
-People
-Puppies...I like to kick them though, so this could be good
-*grumblegrumblegrumblegrumble* No, Mr Crachit, NO CHRISTMAS FOR YOU! *grumblegrumblegrumble*

[bmcfencer]

I love giving gifts- when you manage to give someone something they're really truly excited about and their whole face lights up, you know- or when I get excited about something I've gotten and I can see how happy they are that I like what they took the trouble to find me.

I love Christmas trees and Christmas lights and cookies and candles and advent calendars and all of that.

I love corny Christmas songs. I know they're terrible. I don't care.

Eggnog and Candy canes.

Having time to just BE with my family.

I don't like all the stress, or how competitive everyone gets with their Christmasness, or the way everyone has to find the bad with the Holiday.

You know, I didn't actually know Christmas was a religious holiday until I was like 12 or so? For me it's always been about family and food and little twinkly lights. Mmmmm.

[Mauler]

Bad: No one's hosting a tournament!!!!!!

Good: I got to dress up as Santa for the first time this year!

[Tazz]

Good:

ummmmmmmmmmmm..

Bad:

Forced to suck up to boring relatives
Traffic sooooooooooo bad you cant even get to the beach or anywhere else for that matter
The city absolutely packed with tourists
FOrced to spend money I DONT have on presents for people i dont even like
No gigs to go to.. nothing fun happening
The stupid shops who start advertising like 3 months before the time with little xmas trees etc.. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
CRAPPY CRAPPY CRAPPY weather

[Tazz]

Hahaha I just got called spawn of the devil.

[epeefencer74]

Bad,
That the general population seems happily oblivious to the fact that Christmas is a christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ.

Good,

At least my 2 yr old son is calling it Jesus' Birthday, and is going to church tomorrow to wish Jesus a happy birthday.

[Aqua_volans]

bad,
my christian friends go round preaching about why i should convert and being a freethinker wills end me straight to hell (if theres any HAHA)

good,
i get to tell those people that for christ's sake you are getting his birthday wrong he was NOT BORN IN DECEMBER!!! The christmas we celebrate now was integrated into the catholic religion by some roman emperor. it used to be the celebration of the WINTER SOLSTICE!!! it was a PAGAN celebration. proper HISTORICAL facts you SHOULD know of.

[Moonitic]

Bad:

-Rabid attacks of "PC"-itis. When people wish you "Merry Christmas" (or Happy Hannukah, etc.) they are NOT saying, "Drop dead, you -insert vile name here-." So stop acting like they are!

-Misunderstandings. About what the season means to people. About how others celebrate it. More communication. Less assumptions. Want to know why I celebrate Christmas? Ask me. I'll be happy to tell you. I would give you the same respect.

-Impatience, along with over commercialization. I'm sorry, but putting up Christmas decorations the day after Halloween is a little MUCH. No wonder people get so stressed out!

-People overextending themselves. RELAX a little!! You don't have to buy the most expensive gifts, or throw the biggest, most lavish parties, or go everywhere in one night (that's Santa's job, anyway...lol). There are plenty of ways to make a holiday special, than to overdo it.

-People using this time of the year as a reason to dislike others for their religious beliefs (whatever they are). We can exist peacefully if we didn't attack one another at such a lovely time of year. Ever hear the story of Snoopy vs The Red Baron? Two opposing forces, brought together by a common sentiment.

Good:
-The celebration, not of Jesus's birthDAY, but of the miracle of his birth & why it was important. There's a difference. Want to know what the difference is, & you're sincere about it? Ask me. I'm not going to use this thread as a soapbox to preach Christianity.

-Friends & family. This is an excellent time of year to be thankful for what-& WHO-you have in your life. Cherish them.

-The sights, smells, tastes & feelings of the holidays. I absolutely LOVE the sensory overload.

-Seeing the kids' faces when THEY experience the above mentioned overload.

-The opportunity to give a little more, love a little more, smile a little more.

In all honesty, a day (any day) is what you make of it. If you complain & make it negative, then you are making it a bad day. If you choose to have a positive attitude, then your day will be better. Holidays are supposed to be positive. They're supposed to be something you look forward to. They're supposed to be something used to bond families & friends closer, to form good memories, to pass on to the next generation. If you don't like how a day is going...you CAN change it. There should be peace in your beliefs, whatever they are.

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year's, Happy Kwanza, Happy Hannukah, Happy Solstice, etc.! The point is HAPPY/Merry day to you!

[ReverseLunge]

In our awareness that something around us has gone terribly wrong, we pull back and find a safe distance to let things settle. Perhaps this approach makes use of something similar to the gastronomical genius that unconsciously determines the source of food poisoning when we have become ill, and maintains a biased, close-minded grudge as a strategy to avoid further harm.

Politicians and theologists lament that the public is largely unable to take Middle Eastern fables seriously and the concepts founded upon them now that government cannot enforce respect for a religious system by fire and sword. Their position is understandable given its historical context, as is the rejection of those myths and ideas.

The origins of Judeo-Christianity as a Middle Eastern, Abrahamic religion are well known. The effort to apply this religion to European populations is less considered, though most are aware of the function served by the religious change. Numerous rulers used the guise of saving souls to force this foreign religion on the European natives. Though the Europeans had their own traditional nature-based religions that had served them well for over 10,000 years, missionaries and violent conversions were used to instruct people in the supernatural thinking of a nutty Jewish cult. The goal was to make the population obedient and subservient, in effect enslaving them to the material goals of its decadent, declining rulers.

Though this conversion served the rulers well, providing profit and a weaker, sickened, more controllable population, it was not in anyone's long-term interests. Undertaking such decisions means that eventually the consequences become exposed and show what happens when selfish interests clash with the healthy order of the world.

To grasp the origins from which our instinctual rejection arises, it is important to understand how greatly Judeo-Christianity departs from our ancestral religions. Even with the substantial addition of European thinking to Judeo-Christian teachings, the religion was only digestible to Europeans in abstract metaphor. We have applied our Spring Equinox celebration of seasonal rebirth as Easter, our Winter Solstice festival for Christmas and incorporated our culture into theirs, but still the foreign aspects of their religion fail to connect to us as spiritually relevant, as they originate in souls that are very different from ours.

A historic reading of Judeo-Christianity makes it clear that their god, the god of the Hebrews, is for their people alone and not other nations or peoples. This lack of relevance and the unwillingness to worship a foreign god led even nominally converted people to continue their traditional religious beliefs despite great threats if caught doing so.

The fixation on "sin" is a uniquely Jewish problem. Europeans lived compatibly with nature and focused on doing what was good and useful instead of avoiding what was bad and harmful. Understandably, they did not exhibit the bad behavior that plagued the Jewish population and necessitated behavioral prohibitions and doctrines. Since the mindset of avoiding "sin" changes behavioral focus from functionality and action to dysfucntion and avoidance of action, and then believes that the consequences of a choice are removed by pleading to a being, it is not hard to see why this is a religion with only a passive relationship to life and at best a strained connection to reality.

In real life there is no "evil" or "sin" -- and the endless search for and opposition to these only results in naming things incorrectly and ascribing properties that don't actually exist. To take the next step and punish people for imaginary "evil" or "sin" is a combination of insanity and an obvious control mechanism.

Even children find Judeo-Christian rituals odd, sensing the fear, compulsion, and inner confusion at their roots. When some part of us senses this, not yet numbed, paralyzed, or asleep, the common reaction is to speak out and turn against all religion as a fraud, poison, and disease. But we have not experienced any real religion -- we have been held hostage by a single fraud. Nor have most Judeo-Christians ever had any connection to the spirituality that nourished their ancestors.

What we are seeing in the erosion of Judeo-Christian control is a removal of a facade that only stood for a thousand years. Underneath is a older, lasting spiritual foundation hidden by the rot, mold, and slime of parasites.

When the controllers see their mechanism of control falling to shambles, we can understand that they panic because they have no other expedient and reliable instruments. When Middle Eastern spirituality is rejected by non-Middle Eastern people, that too is sensible, but the rejection of all spiritual possibility is not. That many have been kept ignorant of legitimate spirituality is terrible, but is no reason to curse what truly belongs to them, though they may have not yet discovered it.

The great spiritual crisis of the modern age is not our rejection of Jewish fables, but rather that those vaunted fables have been offered as our only path while better paths were blocked. Those who find Judeo-Christianity hollow and turn away disgusted with religion are still enslaved to the idea that Judeo-Christianity is the only spiritual approach they are permitted to consider. Break free of the blinders instead of choosing to live blind!

The attempts of a thousand years of religious subjugation are coming to an end. Much has been wrecked and great disorganization has been created in the lust for quick profit, but at the core reality remains unchanged. The same seed that gave our ancestors fulfilling lives exists for us also and remains within our grasp.

[ReverseLunge]

In our awareness that something around us has gone terribly wrong, we pull back and find a safe distance to let things settle. Perhaps this approach makes use of something similar to the gastronomical genius that unconsciously determines the source of food poisoning when we have become ill, and maintains a biased, close-minded grudge as a strategy to avoid further harm.

Politicians and theologists lament that the public is largely unable to take Middle Eastern fables seriously and the concepts founded upon them now that government cannot enforce respect for a religious system by fire and sword. Their position is understandable given its historical context, as is the rejection of those myths and ideas.

The origins of Judeo-Christianity as a Middle Eastern, Abrahamic religion are well known. The effort to apply this religion to European populations is less considered, though most are aware of the function served by the religious change. Numerous rulers used the guise of saving souls to force this foreign religion on the European natives. Though the Europeans had their own traditional nature-based religions that had served them well for over 10,000 years, missionaries and violent conversions were used to instruct people in the supernatural thinking of a nutty Jewish cult. The goal was to make the population obedient and subservient, in effect enslaving them to the material goals of its decadent, declining rulers.

Though this conversion served the rulers well, providing profit and a weaker, sickened, more controllable population, it was not in anyone's long-term interests. Undertaking such decisions means that eventually the consequences become exposed and show what happens when selfish interests clash with the healthy order of the world.

To grasp the origins from which our instinctual rejection arises, it is important to understand how greatly Judeo-Christianity departs from our ancestral religions. Even with the substantial addition of European thinking to Judeo-Christian teachings, the religion was only digestible to Europeans in abstract metaphor. We have applied our Spring Equinox celebration of seasonal rebirth as Easter, our Winter Solstice festival for Christmas and incorporated our culture into theirs, but still the foreign aspects of their religion fail to connect to us as spiritually relevant, as they originate in souls that are very different from ours.

A historic reading of Judeo-Christianity makes it clear that their god, the god of the Hebrews, is for their people alone and not other nations or peoples. This lack of relevance and the unwillingness to worship a foreign god led even nominally converted people to continue their traditional religious beliefs despite great threats if caught doing so.

The fixation on "sin" is a uniquely Jewish problem. Europeans lived compatibly with nature and focused on doing what was good and useful instead of avoiding what was bad and harmful. Understandably, they did not exhibit the bad behavior that plagued the Jewish population and necessitated behavioral prohibitions and doctrines. Since the mindset of avoiding "sin" changes behavioral focus from functionality and action to dysfucntion and avoidance of action, and then believes that the consequences of a choice are removed by pleading to a being, it is not hard to see why this is a religion with only a passive relationship to life and at best a strained connection to reality.

In real life there is no "evil" or "sin" -- and the endless search for and opposition to these only results in naming things incorrectly and ascribing properties that don't actually exist. To take the next step and punish people for imaginary "evil" or "sin" is a combination of insanity and an obvious control mechanism.

Even children find Judeo-Christian rituals odd, sensing the fear, compulsion, and inner confusion at their roots. When some part of us senses this, not yet numbed, paralyzed, or asleep, the common reaction is to speak out and turn against all religion as a fraud, poison, and disease. But we have not experienced any real religion -- we have been held hostage by a single fraud. Nor have most Judeo-Christians ever had any connection to the spirituality that nourished their ancestors.

What we are seeing in the erosion of Judeo-Christian control is a removal of a facade that only stood for a thousand years. Underneath is a older, lasting spiritual foundation hidden by the rot, mold, and slime of parasites.

When the controllers see their mechanism of control falling to shambles, we can understand that they panic because they have no other expedient and reliable instruments. When Middle Eastern spirituality is rejected by non-Middle Eastern people, that too is sensible, but the rejection of all spiritual possibility is not. That many have been kept ignorant of legitimate spirituality is terrible, but is no reason to curse what truly belongs to them, though they may have not yet discovered it.

The great spiritual crisis of the modern age is not our rejection of Jewish fables, but rather that those vaunted fables have been offered as our only path while better paths were blocked. Those who find Judeo-Christianity hollow and turn away disgusted with religion are still enslaved to the idea that Judeo-Christianity is the only spiritual approach they are permitted to consider. Break free of the blinders instead of choosing to live blind!

[Aqua_volans]

MY REALLY SINCERE APOLOGIES. christmas was not originally the winter solstice but saturnalia. a roman festival where the ancient romans ran wild doing as they pleased and not getting punished for it, make that absolutely anything

[foily]

Reverse Lunge's post = Best. Christmas. Post. Ever.

EVER.

[bmcfencer]

Hmmm. I am not sure that I agree with the spirit of ReverseLunge's post, even if I agree with some of the sentiment of it (the pagan roots of Christmas are what I celebrate for myself, not the the Christian bits). Perhaps this is because my own religion has a Judeo-Christian background, but more likely I think it is because my real problem with the Christmas season is how upset everyone gets about whatever their issue with the holiday is. We squabble so much we forget to actually enjoy any of the stuff we're spending all this money on.

I dunno. For me this time of year is a chance to get all wish washy and corny about things- to think about the ending of a year and about rebirth and what I have and who I love and where my life is. It's a chance to look around and remember that I have a wonderful family and a good life and a lot of hope for the future. I look at it as an excuse to be warmed by traditions, even silly or nonsensical ones, to give presents to people I love and eat a lot of food and talk to the people I love but never get to see.

I went to the Christmas Eve service at my grandmother's church (admittedly rather against my wishes) and left feeling more at peace with where I am and where I want to go (and wanting to give away everything I have and don't need). The minister talked about how both the Christian and Jewish holidays of this season are about new life and new hope, about, as he put it, seeing the light instead of the lamp and putting our hope and faith in something bigger and broader than yourself. For me this connected to other things - to solstice and New Year's and Zagmuk (like solstice, only with the god Marduk defeating the powers of darkness), and to the idea that this season is really about, well, trying to connect to something beyond the self, if only for a day or an hour or an instant, and seeing that winter and cold and strife won't last forever.

Another thing- What, really, is wrong with being politically correct? What's wrong with awknowledging the diversity of human culture and the conflicts and structural violence inherent in some of the language we use? What's wrong with thinking about how what you say will affect someone? Isn't an attempt at justice sometimes more important that a momentary annoyance of word choice? "Happy Holidays" vrs "Merry Christmas" is such (in my opinion) a bizarre and petty arguement. So we're finally admitting that not everyone is a Christian and trying not to offend people in this season of supposed joy and platonic love? Oh horrors!

Happy Holidays, Everyone.

May you all have warmth and love and lots of chocolate and at least a moment of pure unfiltered joy.

May your candles not start fires and your relatives not get too drunk.

And may you all forgive me for another long post.

Goodnight.

[foily]

Well, we used to have some great Christmases, let me see:

Always getting a tree that goes right up to the ceiling

The way that tree smells, I used to get a little bit of the resin on my hand just to smell it

Old old ornements, blown glass made in Germany, odd old light bulbs they don't make any more, clear colored glass and you could see the filaments, some were blinking, etc. It took about 2 days to decorate it right.

When you'd get a really neat scientific present, like a chemistry set. Or a relatively unscientific one, like a BICYCLE!

Singing those old songs, yeah they're corny but they're fun, in elementary school singing them in class and turning into into a shoutfest then the teacher would calm us down by doing Silent Night. Then learning Silent Night at home in German because my older sis took German in high school.

Going around caroling, which we did one year, and seeing the astonished adults - here we were singing so nicely and we were the kids mostly known for terrorizing the neighborhood on our skateboards.

Weird things you cook or at least eat, like mince pie. Is there meat in there?

Candy candy candy and more candy! It takes a good sugar high to really break in that new bike, or at least do all the experiments in the book that came with the chemistry set.

Big candy canes = big candy cane fencing bouts, every time.

That nice "Christmas glow" that's over the several days before and after as well as on, Christmas.

[Go? Fencing?]

Like: exchanging presents, seeing family at Wigilia.

Dislike: the way my dad always manages to ruin Christmas somehow.

[Moonitic]

Another thing- What, really, is wrong with being politically correct? What's wrong with awknowledging the diversity of human culture and the conflicts and structural violence inherent in some of the language we use? What's wrong with thinking about how what you say will affect someone? Isn't an attempt at justice sometimes more important that a momentary annoyance of word choice? "Happy Holidays" vrs "Merry Christmas" is such (in my opinion) a bizarre and petty arguement. So we're finally admitting that not everyone is a Christian and trying not to offend people in this season of supposed joy and platonic love? Oh horrors!

People are offended only if they wish to be. The sentiments of the season, whatever those sentiments are, are not death threats, or hate language. They are simply well wishes, regardless of how they are presented. When someone who believes differently than us expresses such sentiments, we have a choice in how we respond. Do we turn it into a fight, or do we express a similar sentiment?

People should be able to feel comfortable to say what is on their hearts. Some day, "Happy Holidays" may even be found offensive. Then what? We as a people have no fun, joyful season just because a few grumps didn't want one...ANY one? No way! Celebrate Hannukah! Celebrate Kwanzaa! Celebrate Christmas, both secular AND non-secular! Celebrate the solstice, or whatever. My point is to not be afraid of celebrating. Ya know?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

If you dont get what you want, just remember: The best gifts are the ones you give to yourself.