Absence of blade...

[The Terran]

I've been really "kicking it in the arse" this week, and going to the salle every chance I get to. (All I want for Christmas is to not suck anymore )

Anyway, one of the regulars at the salle is a little younger than me, and is one class ahead of me in experience. I fence this kid two or three times a night. (classical foil) He uses a beat-ish manuver that reminds me of a frosse, but he winds up pretty hard for it, so most of the time he misses and either smacks my bellguard really hard, or hits me on the wrist full force. Which, needless to say, hurts like a mother. Most of the time I can just evade the beat-thing, and he wiffs as I touch him in 6. I've found an easy way to avoid the problem all together is to fence with my foil in an 8 en guard. The problem is, I'm not supposed to fence with absence of blade, since I haven't learned anything about it So, could you wonderful fnet peoples give me a quick runthrough of fencing with a low en guard? It seems like a pretty difficult tactic to pull off for a beginner, so any tips to make it more effective are greatly appriciated ^_^

Thanks guys

[KD5MDK]

Step 1: Switch to sabre

[Teme]

Step 2: Stick to sabre

[noodle]

i'll actually give a helpful answer:

fencing in 8, or in absence, is really just a tradeoff. 6 is a good default because it really closes off your opponent's options in regards to where they can attack initially, but it puts your blade right up on their plate to beat it. if you switch to 8, your blade isn't easily beat-able, but you open up a lot of target area that wasn't open before. to parry an attack to these newly opened lines would take longer to execute and would probably be more large and sweeping in nature.

to be effective, you're going to need to move. coordination with footwork is absolutely necessary as parrying in the high lines is made to be more difficult.

[JEC]

I agree with noodle. That is why it is a style used in Epee quite successfully. It does require "a bit" longer distance than other positions.

[Black Jeebus]

One thing you can try is to slowly and steadily raise your blade in such a way that your opponent doesn't notice. This is harder to describe than to show. When you get to where your blade is closing in on being pointed directly at your opponent accelerate as much as you can and hit. This is called (at least in my club) a slow attack, the advantage of it is that often your opponent won't see your arm beginning the extension, while any good ref will. Make sure to really keep it a smooth extension/raise of the blade the whole way, and also be ready to finish if your opponent counters, remember you only have so long after being hit to hit back, even if you have ROW!

[Allen Evans]

Fencing with an absence of blade is a valuable alternative to having your blade in high line and the resulting smacking around that it gets from the opponent. There are some considerations in attack and defense to be aware of, however.

On defense, it is important to make sure that taking an on guard with absence of blade means only that your tip is below your hand, NOT that you’ve dropped your hand as well. If you drop the entire hand out of the fencing line you will have a difficult time making actions. Also, fencers who use an absence of blade often show a tendency to make the same parry on defense. Make sure when fencing absence of blade that you vary your choice of parries where appropriate.

On the attack, absence of blade lends itself to immediate attacks to the unprotected targets of flank and low inside. Use them! Then use the threat of this attack to make feints and disengages to other targets.

Finally, sometimes, for no reason, bring your blade back to the high line and execute some actions before returning to the low line on guard. There is no sense in keeping your opponent comfortable!

[parrythis]

If you have an opponent that launches their attacks by taking your blade with a beat or a bind every single time, absence of blade is a good way to take them out of their comfort zone. Your opponent's intentions will become more obvious. Be prepared to respond with a variety of parries. Circle 6 puts you in a position to give a binding riposte. Do pay extra attention to distance. When you attack, watch for low-line opportunities as your blade will be close to there anyway.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by The Terran

I've found an easy way to avoid the problem all together is to fence with my foil in an 8 en guard.

Sounds like a plan - what's wrong with it?

The problem is, I'm not supposed to fence with absence of blade, since I haven't learned anything about it

Ah I see... So what is wrong with fencing with absence of blade? What is this "not supposed to do it because I haven't 'learned' it? If I sound like I am being critical of this statement then, I am afraid to say, I am.

This isn't Karate or some other Eastern martial art. It isn't as formalised. If you find a tactic that works, and it suits you, then why not do it? If you have found something, whether through instinct or through thought is not important for the purposes of this discussion, then I see no reason for you not to do it. What you find is that ,for some (perhaps all) people, there are a set of moves that can 'unlock' them. This is because [let's get to the point] a lot of people have a preferred set of moves. If you find a particular way of fencing works against an opponent then make a note of it. It is a good possibility that the same tactics will work against other similar fencers (with tweaks to suit the individual).

You should be thinking through your tactical options and trying things out when you fence in the salle. It is important to have an array of options open to you. Do not discard a good tactical option just on some fuzzy premise that you have to 'know how to do it'. Get your coach to help you refine the technique, but do not discard it.