To old/not talented for fencing?

[banane16]

Hallo @ all, I have been looking for this forum, because I have a problem: For about half a year now I have been taking lessons in foil with a very experienced teacher, usually twice a week. Additionally, I am with a beginners group about once a week. However, I never seem to get footwork correctly, no matter how much I practice, and learning new moves is very hard for me – it takes me dozens of times till I manage to repeat them. What is more, I seem to be incredibly slow, so I am never really able to parry in time. I have been fighting a few times now, the make beginners practise with experienced fencers only, which is not very funny for me this way. I am not a person that gives up on anything easy, but it is beginning to frustrate me just a tiny bit too much.

Starting in my mid-thirties I only wanted to become a recreational fencer anyway, but at the moment I do not even see a way for that. Has anyone here been a senior beginner und kind of and managed to become a somehow decent fighter? In my club, there seems to be virtually no one, the very few beginners about my age after some time just seem to stay away … (I no longer wonder why…)

Apart from fencing, I swim, bike and ski and I also do weights, so the athletic part of fencing is not much of a problem for me. Still, our club is very traditional and also rather successful, so I wonder, if it would be better to try another club with lower expectations ?

[JEC]

The learning curve for somebody like you or I has a slower pace. For years, I was frustrated that young teens got in the club and in a matter of few months were consistently beating me and getting ratings. It takes time ... years. If you persist, eventually, you might rise through the ranks and even become a decent competitive fencer as you cross the 40 barrier as a veteran's fencer. Go to a few local tournaments and start with small goals, such as winning one bout in pools, then two, etc. Then, it will be winning your first DE, etc. Eventually, your goal should be to become rated as an E fencer. Each of these steps might take you several months at a time, and at least two or three times longer than the teenagers getting into your club. Make sure that you keep your physical condititioning. There are many competitive fencers in the veteran circuit that started after their thirties. It takes persistance and a lot of work.

[Fechter1]

Short answer: It'll take as long as it takes. Some people just take to the sport quicker than others.

Half a year really isn't enough time to develop actual bouting skills. Unless you're extremely talented, have great motor skills (usually helped by some form of martial arts training), or are young enough that those motor skills are still developing quickly, it's going to take time.

As for older beginning fencers, I can name literally dozens of instances where a person started fencing later in life. Some of them have turned into champions (ask Peach about her age when she started, and how far she's gotten), some have had no talent for the sport whatsoever, but still compete in tournaments (sometimes DFL'ing), mainly for the social aspect.

If your club places a lot of emphasis on competitive achievements to the detriment of social/recreational fencers such as yourself, it may be time to look for a new club. But again, you might find next week that you finally 'get it' in terms of bouting and start to like the competitive aspect.
Before coming to any decision, make sure you talk to people (other fencers, both younger and older, competitive and recreational, your coach) and hear what they think.

Most important part is that you enjoy yourself while you're doing it.

[Fencergrl]

The important thing to ask yourself "Do you enjoy fencing?"

If the answer is yes, hang in there. I am often surprised how long it takes me to feel comfortable with certain aspects of fencing. Even though I played sports my whole life certain things in fencing come slower. I too am learning this sport later in life.

Fence if you enjoy fencing and just understand that some things take longer to learn than others. Don't be afraid of going into tournaments. They are great learning experiences. They show you what you need to work on.

If you need a little inspiration, have a look at ThatReallyHurts journal entries. He is a foilist on F-Net who was coming in last in every tournament. Then things started to fall into place and he started winning bouts.

If you don't enjoy fencing or find your performance too hard on the ego, perhaps this sport isn't right for you.

[parryDoh]

Half a year really isn't enough time to develop actual bouting skills.

So true. Im in my thirtys as well and it takes time to improve. Fencing is a VERY HARD sport, but well worth it if your enjoying it. I will have been practicing regularly for a year in Jan, my fencing has improved so much! Hang in there.

and learning new moves is very hard for me – it takes me dozens of times till I manage to repeat them. What is more, I seem to be incredibly slow, ?

Me exactly, doing a new footwork action with correct hand movement on the first day, no way, must be the thirty year old brain thing... and speed ya forget that... But practicing at the gym with mirrors on nonfencing days, helps alot. And the speed comes.

And Welcome to the forums, hope to see ya here alot!

[Larrison]

Hey banane16!

Hmm.. I've got more than a decade on you, and I'm still fencing. Do I get beat by highly-in-shape young guys at tournaments? Yep. Do I still like to fence? Yep.. Am I still learning and slowly getting better as a fencer? Yep.

On the other hand, if its not one of the rated folks from my club, I can give them a run for the money. In the rec fencers categoy at my club, I can do well more than hold my own in competitions. But for the folks who have the luxury of being able to work out for a couple of hours a day, and fence 5-6 days a week -- well, I learn from them rather than vice versa. :P

I really enjoy the sport. I'm not fast -- heck, I'm probably the slowest and most out of shape guy in my class. But I can throw in something or change up something so that some fast dude doesnt know what's coming next and I'm back in there looking to get a touch. And if I lose, so what? It's what I'm learning and trying and progressing on.

You're doing the right thing in learning it slowly -- do it right, make the right habits and you'll have more success than someone who goes out, is sloppy and just tries to compensate with pure speed. Speed without a plan, and speed without precision isn't quickness in action.

[Ordway]

Hang in there. Half a year is hardly anything especially in a sport that asks you to move in ways that you've never had to move before. Also realize that "slow learning curve" is NOT the same thing as "not learning." I am not a particularly fast learner in fencing, and when I started out it caused me some grief to see my teammates zoom past me, but you know what happened to the tortoise and the hare, after all! I was a most definitely unpromising beginner fencer, and I had a looooooong plateau in the "barely competitive in local events" range, but I kept working at it (because I love to fence) and now I've broken out of that plateau and now at age 31 I am a decent competitive fencer with ambitions to improve even more.

Here's what I'd suggest, based on what has helped me a lot:

1. Think about your learning style and consider if you're learning your fencing skills in the most effective way. I'm a visual/kinesthetic learner, and a pretty lousy auditory learner. It's not all that useful for my coach to *tell* me what to do; what helps me is for him to demonstrate and/or physically guide me through an action. It also helps me to write things down. I had the hardest time with certain tactical actions until I finally wrote them down on a little index card - the act of writing them down and seeing them in writing made it click in my brain right away, even though *hearing* them fifty gazillion times didn't help at all.

2. Consider if your coach, though experienced, is helping *you* learn. One thing that I have come to realize is that the relationship between student and teacher is of paramount importance. If your coach teaches in a way that doesn't work for you, and won't/can't change it, then you might want to look for a different teacher.

3. Try different "fixes" for the things you're having a hard time with - don't just keep trying the same thing, but with more effort! Get someone to analyze your footwork; there may be a simple thing you're doing wrong that's preventing you from feeling how it's supposed to work. With my own students, sometimes all it takes is a few adjustments and they have that "Aha! THAT's what a proper lunge is supposed to be like!" Having felt it, they can reproduce it better the next time.

4. Kind of a corollary to 3. Don't give up. For MONTHS I was working on trying to correct a subtle flaw in my cuts and couldn't get it right. My coach kept trying to fix it, trying this, trying that. Nothing worked. Finally he had me try over-correcting and a light bulb went off- I suddenly could visualize how it was supposed to work, and could then consistently do it right.

5. Do try fencing with other beginners. I don't think it'll help you to only fence more experienced, faster fencers. Speed comes with time - don't stress out that you don't have it yet.

6. Try to look at "problems" holistically. You say you are always too slow to parry? Maybe it's not the speed that's the problem, maybe it's that you're too close to the opponent. Try changing up your distance. Or maybe you're starting with your hand in the wrong position so you have too far to move your blade. Maybe you're having trouble identifying the incoming attack and need to work on visual cues. There are many possible causes for an inability to parry that have little to do with speed.

Most of all - have fun!

[FenderJazz]

Greetings!
This is my first time posting. This site and forum has been great for a guy like me who has come back home to the sport

I started fencing in 1969 in high school and as a scholarship fencer at St John's University 1973-75 and individually till 1987.Then I stopped to pursue a career in music. I have just come back to the sport at age 50. I stopped fencing before there was electric sabre. So you can imagine my dismay at the changes that took place in sabre with the advent of the electric apparatus. I still beleive it or not have a good touch. The lessons I learned from Czaba Elthes are still fresh in my mind. But the most difficult thing I am having to contend with is the absence of the fleche, and the dismissal of being able to cross your feet and numerous other changes in the rules. Along with being 50, a lot slower and some what out of shape, has made me feel as though I have never fenced before. It is obvious that there is no longer a place for the "Classical fencer anymore" So to this I can only say that I still love the sport as I always had but the learning curve is extremely steep for me. I have managed to be able to score some very nice touches, but I rely on tactics , guile and the abilty to confound my younger more athletic opponents from time to time, it works ha ha. It's been getting better, finally stopped beating myself up. I have fallen in love with the sport all over again, dont give up!

[parrythis]

I am in my mid-50s and have gotten serious about fencing only in the last few years. Six months is not much time to use as a measurement, but... How good are you compared to six months ago? A lot better, I would think.

Fencing is one of those sports in which you advance by plateaus. You get to a level and stay there for a while. Then one day, you wake up and you're on the next level. With practice and patience, you will get better.

I'm not sure I agree with the approach your club uses. While fencing against experienced people is valuable and you can learn a lot, the opportunity to fence against other people at a similar skill level to you is valuable too. Doing so gives you the ability to measure your progress and feel a sense of accomplishment. Perhaps, for now, a different club might make your journey a more enjoyable one.

[_fence(1)]

(ask Peach about her age when she started, and how far she's gotten), some have had no talent for the sport whatsoever, but still compete in tournaments (sometimes DFL'ing), mainly for the social aspect.

Peach, how old were you when you started fencing? What is your rating now?

Thnx!

[k9fav]

you may also want to consider switching from foil to epee!

[Peach]

Peach, how old were you when you started fencing? What is your rating now?

Thnx!

I just saw this thread, sorry.

I was 43 when I started 11 years ago. I had a pretty tough time learning to fence, even though I'd been active for years. We older beginners take longer to learn the motor skills, partly because we have so much to unlearn. Also, from what I've observed, our coaches would do well to reduce the amount of information they give us at any one time. I used to finish up my lesson, leave, and shout in my car, "I have NO idea what you are talking about!" I did all right in my first couple of years because I got in on the coattails of the first pioneers in women's sabre, and the competition was not yet strong, but believe me I wasn't very good.

I got better, though. I'm now a B-classified fencer, and I'd say that's a pretty accurate level because I've attained that level regularly (last time was December). I did have a one-time A01 which recently lapsed--I decided to shoot for that around the time I was turning 50, because I knew I was getting older, the competition was getting younger and faster, and if I trained hard I had a shot in the I-A. I paid for that training with overuse injuries but it was so cool pretending I was an elite athlete at that age!!!!!

Hang in there. The satisfactions of being a veteran athlete are numerous.And there is NOTHING like that first time you beat someone who OBVIOUSLY thinks they should have beaten you because you're so ooooooold. Hee hee hee.

[_fence(1)]

Peach, do you mind if I ask - how long did you fence before you've got your first B rating?

[Peach]

Dang--um. I don't remember exactly. (Going to look) Oh, yeah. I earned a B the first time in '98 in Division II in Summer Nationals, which would be, what, three or four years after I started fencing? YMMV--keep in mind, again, that WS was nascent (or foetal) at that point.