Size of bib

[rsy]

I was asked the other day if there is a maximum dimension for a bib in foil. I thought there was, but didn't know it so I went looking. In m.30(a) if found a minimum bib size for epee, (the bib must reach below the clavicles), and in Appendix A, para 2.2.4.3, I found this odd reference:

The bib must be fixed to the exterior of the grille starting from the reinforcement band onwards and extending as protection for the neck for a total height of the order of 10–12 cm.

What I find odd about this language is its use of the word "height", although I suppose that is the correct word from a math and measurement standpoint, and the imprecission, "of the order of 10-12 cm."

I could not find any other relevant reference to a bib measurment. Is this the measurment for a bib in foil? Does this mean that the bib must be no less than 10cm nor more than 12cm?

-r

[SJCFU#2]

The 10-12 cm requirement stated in Appendix A is not weapon specific. In theory the bib length of any mask should be between 10 and 12 cm irregardless of weapon. However the wording is seems a bit imprecise (I don't know many engineers who would use the term "of the order of" when specifying tolerances).

There used to be a maximum size for the bib in foil which was tied to the individual fencer. IIRC the maximum size foil bib for an individual fencer was smaller than the minimum size epee bib for the same fencer. This was dropped several years ago, apparently without much fanfare, opening the door to fencers (mostly small children) using masks with bibs that seem to cover half their target area.

[KD5MDK]

Having a decently large tolerence is a useful thing in equipment descriptions, giving how much they've messed it up elsewhere. For example, 155mm of tip tape being illegal...

[Purple Fencer]

Having a decently large tolerence is a useful thing in equipment descriptions, giving how much they've messed it up elsewhere. For example, 155mm of tip tape being illegal...

Actually, 155 millimeters IS illegal....the max allowed is 150 millimeters....or 15 centimeters....measured from the base of the barrel.

[parrythis]

Actually, 155 millimeters IS illegal....the max allowed is 150 millimeters....or 15 centimeters....measured from the base of the barrel.

From the rule book:

m . 1 3 The body of the barrel and the foil blade for a length of 15 cm from the barrel, as well as the pommel or the rear extremity of the handle, must be entirely covered with insulating material (insulating tape, gummed paper, Sellotape, plastic material or varnish)...

I kind of took this to mean that 15cm is the minimum length that must be insulated. I'm not seeing how exceeding that would make the weapon any more or less likely to register only valid touches.

[Purple Fencer]

From the rule book:



I kind of took this to mean that 15cm is the minimum length that must be insulated. I'm not seeing how exceeding that would make the weapon any more or less likely to register only valid touches.

Actually....it's THE specified length....there's no stated minimum or maximum....a little bit of an oversight there (unless it was corrected in the latest rulebook)....Donald can tell a story of a certain Euro team that got really *****y about the rules one day and ended up with EVERY weapon failed for multiple items....the tape being one of them!

Tape longer than 15cm could act like excess glue in an epee blade...the tip might catch and fire the light...the differance, of course, if that in THIS situation, the action would halt and no touch would be awarded.

[Mergs]

OOOOOOhhhhh. I thought it depended on how messy you were when you ate! Oops. Silly me.

[Insipiens]

Actually....it's THE specified length....there's no stated minimum or maximum....a little bit of an oversight there (unless it was corrected in the latest rulebook)....Donald can tell a story of a certain Euro team that got really *****y about the rules one day and ended up with EVERY weapon failed for multiple items....the tape being one of them!

Tape longer than 15cm could act like excess glue in an epee blade...the tip might catch and fire the light...the differance, of course, if that in THIS situation, the action would halt and no touch would be awarded.

with the change in timings and paranoia about hits registering a lot of people have gone to excess with tape to make sure their foil doesn't short out bending on a hit. At a foil satellite recently I was told I had too much tape on the tip by the referee but was allowed to just remove some.

[rsy]

There used to be a maximum size for the bib in foil which was tied to the individual fencer. IIRC the maximum size foil bib for an individual fencer was smaller than the minimum size epee bib for the same fencer. This was dropped several years ago, apparently without much fanfare, opening the door to fencers (mostly small children) using masks with bibs that seem to cover half their target area.

I went back through the rules through the year 1999 (that is as far back as I have them) and I can't find anything other than "on the order of" 10-12cm. I guess that is all the is, at least for the last 5 or 6 years.

-r

[Purple Fencer]

with the change in timings and paranoia about hits registering a lot of people have gone to excess with tape to make sure their foil doesn't short out bending on a hit. At a foil satellite recently I was told I had too much tape on the tip by the referee but was allowed to just remove some.

An easy check is a dollar bill....they're 6 inches, which is really close to 15cm (it's about 15.2 cm(...just rip back about 1/4" from the end of the dollar and you'll be good.

[KD5MDK]

Actually, 155 millimeters IS illegal....the max allowed is 150 millimeters....or 15 centimeters....measured from the base of the barrel.

Which was exactly my point.

[Purple Fencer]

Which was exactly my point.

Oh....I thought you were referring to the "155" as the typo....the actual rule is in centimeters...155 centimeters would be a LOT of tape!

[KD5MDK]

No, I was pointing out that the extra 5mm is not legal.

[The Poopsmith]

I try to wear a mask with the biggest bib I can find. I don't want my uniform to get dirty when I'm shoveling poop, or my lame to get dirty when fencing foil.

[DHCJr]

No, I was pointing out that the extra 5mm is not legal.

What you don't understand is you have 150 mm of tolerance. You can have anywhere between no tape and 15 cm. That is a lot of tolerance. As Sam said almost 6".

The rules state 15cm, but it is UNDERSTOOD to be less than 15cm. Why, you may ask. If there is no tape on the blade, who does it hurt? If you have tape all the way down the blade and your opponent hits the solid part of your blade and gets a white light in their attack, who does it hurt? If you read the rules as if they are there to not give unfair advantage to the person using the equipment, you will understand the rules better.

Also if you have 155 cm, I don't think any one would fail it, even if it was illegal.

[KD5MDK]

155cm would probably fail, but it would be worth seeing. A 5ft foil?

[Purple Fencer]

155cm would probably fail, but it would be worth seeing. A 5ft foil?

That'd be a lance!

[DHCJr]

155cm would probably fail, but it would be worth seeing. A 5ft foil?

You caught me.