Petition to recall USFA President

[Sciurus-Rex]

The Board doesn't have a say in the matter per the procedure outlined in the By-Laws. The nominating committee -- as elected by the Congress -- can nominate candidates. ...

Ooops. My bad.
The committee, then.

If I had to guess without doing any preliminary research first, I would say that most similar NGBs also generally have non-contested elections.

Yeah. Probably.
But what about recall follow-ups? They are, by their nature, more contentious than simply finding a replacement for the outgoing prez.

[oiuyt]

Yeah. Probably.
But what about recall follow-ups? They are, by their nature, more contentious than simply finding a replacement for the outgoing prez.

Ahh, but I was reponding to MrE's post about the 2004 elections.

I believe that even in this case the nominating committee would return only a single name. That said, they are more likely to return multiple names after a recall than in more usual circumstances.

As to regards to the Nominating Committee members, I know at least two are following these conversations. I suspect that most of the rest are as well.

-B

[KD5MDK]

I can guarantee that at least one member of the board is aware of the discussions.

Trust me, there are a number of Board lurkers on the board, in addition to the few that occasionally post. These discussions are not going unnoticed. This is especially true these days with the recall going on, but is generally true as well.

-B

A board member has mentioned to me that they are impressed by the quality of the discussion here, specifically that on both sides of the issue members are not trusting some bigwig's statement in favor or against it, but asking questions and investigating and acting like concerned members.

[Sciurus-Rex]

(comments about execs paying attention)

Well, then, that's all I ask -- that they not allow such a small group to just roll over anyone. It sets a horrible precedent and tone for our organization. IF the recall petition sigs are collected and confirmed, letting the recallers put their own man in position is about the same as a third-world country coup.

[fencingaddict]

If headquaters is OFA Cathy is problem upset that her dauther didnt get and sign commerical for TV which is her job to get a agent not the USFA to market her.Dont you just hate non fencers tell fencers how to run the show. Granted she is a former rower in the 76 Oly.

I think you are under a misunderstanding here, I spoke to Cathy to find out her reasons for supporting this recall and this is NOT one of them. Her daughter is a full time college student, and is on a scholarship to Notre Dame and under strict NCAA rules so she is prohibited from profiting financially.

Rather her reasons are similar to many posted through out several threads, and her concern is not focused solely on her daughter. Ask her yourself. Her email address is posted on the www.oregonfencing.com website under the staff section.

[Mo]

[QUOTE=heretic
If Nancy wants to contest, she simply has to file her petition on a timely basis - which would be the first thing she ever did on a timely basis.[/QUOTE]

Again Heretic, you are resorting to assuming the worst about Nancy. How do you know that this is "the first thing." ? She is a professional woman, speaks many languages including French to Mr. Roche. etc.

Ms. Anderson is a real person. She is not some ficticious character. You are libeling her. You are making completely unfounded accusations. She is a genuinely decent human being and yet you feel free to say whatever pops into your head about her.

Cut the crap.

The meet in Houston is an excellent reason this whole recall petition should never have been brought forth. The meet had a pall over it. People were mean. Coaches were mean to fencers and referees. The coach from Harvard during a saber bout used profanity like I have never heard at a fencing competition. He wasn't the only one. There was so much fighting going on.

The sides were clearly drawn. If this meet was an example of fencing at it's best it really isn't worth it. The lack of civility and unprofessional behavior just plain sucks.

This is bad for the USFA. It is pitting fencers against fencers.
Work to make the USFA better for everyone not worse.

The Momster

[dr.lutz]

Well, then, that's all I ask -- that they not allow such a small group to just roll over anyone. It sets a horrible precedent and tone for our organization. IF the recall petition sigs are collected and confirmed, letting the recallers put their own man in position is about the same as a third-world country coup.

This is not a coup.

Those behind the recall have ZERO say over who the Nominating Committee eventually nominates. That doesn't mean that their eventual choice is not the same as the one we support.

As for a small group rolling over anyone, that implies that four people somehow control the process on their own. As the Election Committee Chair, via the By-Laws, has determined that at least 850 other voting members within the USFA have to share our opinion, that represents 10% of the voting membership.

So, please, stop referring to this a some type of third-world coup by four mean and powerful gringos.

The process and the USFA By-Laws have been spelled out many, many times in this thread.

Dr. Lutz

[Sciurus-Rex]

((I said: "Letting the recallers put their own man in position is about the same as a third-world country coup."))

This is not a coup.

As for a small group rolling over anyone, that implies that four people somehow control the process on their own. ...

No, you silly person. We're interested in keeping this from becoming a coup. As I stated, if the committee allowed you to place your person without a larger vote, it would then be likened to a coup.

And we don't want that, do we? No, we don't.

So we're all good on that point. You will obviously want a full membership election against the standing president. Cool!

[jjefferies]

Speaking about on-line registration:

This doesn't make sense. I don't think anybody doubts the ability to take a person's money and add them to a list online. What's in question is insurance coverage and liability.

When it comes to these things, Canada and the United States are two different countries, with different laws and different courts. While I can't comment on legal differences, I can assure you that lawsuits in Canada are filed with less frequency and awards in Canada are much lower.

All this would make the risk to the CFF's insurance company much smaller, and online registration more viable.

It's not just Canada, The Long Beach (USA) Invitational reigstered fencers on-line using "Ask Fred". Likewise Duel in the Desert is registering fencers on line. So your argument about the differences in govt's and legal systems doesn't hold up. So far as I can tell no one has been able to offer a valid reason why the USFA has not implemented on-line registration. All the reasons so far advanced have largely been red herrings.

[jjefferies]

Thanks. My dissertation advisor, an eminent research professor who holds an endowed chair and heads a department of a university as well as serving as president of my field's national research association, was repeatedly called "Marilyn" by our department's administrative assistants while her colleague (a very nice guy but not nearly as distinguished) was called "Dr. Larkin." It started to sting after a while, which is one of the reasons the department she chairs is somewhere else entirely.

Thank you for an interesting diversion. But I couldn't quite relate the slights to the last sentence. After Sciurus' responses logic no longer makes as much sense to me.
But couldn't a distinguished professor just slap down an mere administrative assistant (verbally or otherwise)? Personally me thinks a sword would work wonders in such a situation (maybe to lend a saber).

[Mo]

Speaking about on-line registration:

It's not just Canada, The Long Beach (USA) Invitational reigstered fencers on-line using "Ask Fred". Likewise Duel in the Desert is registering fencers on line. So your argument about the differences in govt's and legal systems doesn't hold up. So far as I can tell no one has been able to offer a valid reason why the USFA has not implemented on-line registration. All the reasons so far advanced have largely been red herrings.

Online registration can be easily set up. All the office needs in 100,000 bucks for setting up the puter system and software to meet the requirements of the insurance ETC.

The people in the office would truly love to have it. All that paperwork. Who would enjoy that?

Please send your contributions to:
USFA/ Online Registration Fund
United States Fencing Association
One Olympic Plaza
Colorado Springs, CO 80909-5774
See if someone will set up an account to get the money for online registration. Clearly mark your envelope.

The Momster

[jjefferies]

And I would posit that this means the Nominating Committee is failing in their duties.

It has been reported in this thread that in 2004 the Nominating Committee held their own little run off election between Anderson and Cheris - prior to submitting only a single nomination to be approved unanimously by the general membership.

This is awesomely inappropriate.

I have heard there is now some degree of ruefulness on the Nominating Committee about having nominated Ms. Anderson.

[Peach]

But couldn't a distinguished professor just slap down an mere administrative assistant (verbally or otherwise)?

Oh, dear, no. An administrative assistant makes All Things Possible and holds the Keys to things like the copier and how to get things done, whereas a distinguished professor wanders crying aloud in the wilderness.

[jjefferies]

I assume at least one member of the board would be aware of our extensive discussions here, and would raise the issue with his peers.

To be on the safe side, however, I s'pose we oughtta write a few letters to remind them of the situation and our expectations.

Now I gotta look up the names and addresses... (mumble mumble)...

Sciurus, A serious thoughtful comment out of you!!! I am shocked and pleased that you would make such a positive contribution. Really, I applaud and second the suggestion.

[jjefferies]

Cut the crap.

The meet in Houston is an excellent reason this whole recall petition should never have been brought forth. The meet had a pall over it. People were mean. Coaches were mean to fencers and referees. The coach from Harvard during a saber bout used profanity like I have never heard at a fencing competition. He wasn't the only one. There was so much fighting going on.

The sides were clearly drawn. If this meet was an example of fencing at it's best it really isn't worth it. The lack of civility and unprofessional behavior just plain sucks.

This is bad for the USFA. It is pitting fencers against fencers.
Work to make the USFA better for everyone not worse.

The Momster

Mo, could you be over reacting? We had two adult fencers in Houston and neither has mentioned any particular unplesantness. I'll try to remember to specifically ask them if they felt anything unusual or were aware of any such pall. It may be that your are being hyper sensitive to what's happening because you are taking part in these discussions.

[jjefferies]

Oh, dear, no. An administrative assistant makes All Things Possible and holds the Keys to things like the copier and how to get things done, whereas a distinguished professor wanders crying aloud in the wilderness.

Oh, different times, different worlds I guess. When I was a grad student at the U of Waterloo, it was a fellow graduate student who owned all the keys (duplicates). But he was British, a PhD candidate and paranoid that the canadians were all out to get him. Which may have been true, even paranoids have enemies. But I remember the admin assist (or the canadian equivalent) used to have major concerns why things moved in the middle of the night - graduate students keep the same hours as vampires you know. Keys, symbols of power or power itself?

[Feltan]

Online registration can be easily set up. All the office needs in 100,000 bucks for setting up the puter system and software to meet the requirements of the insurance ETC...

Mo,

I have heard the $100K number before, and I don't buy it.

Maybe you have some insight into this -- and I'd appreciate you sharing. I work software for a living, and my guess is that someone or some organiztion that didn't want this to happen floated a poison pill solution (a solution so awful or expensive that no one would want it) to prevent online registration from happening.

Regards,
Feltan

[jjefferies]

Online registration can be easily set up. All the office needs in 100,000 bucks for setting up the puter system and software to meet the requirements of the insurance ETC.

deleted a nice plea for donations

The Momster

Mo, I must disagree with you on this point. My understanding (admittedly based on just a few conversations with interested individuals and not hard negotiations dealing with reqs and money) is that there are several groups or organizations out there who have voluntarily approached the USFA about allowing them to implement this function. I don't want to mention them by name as they have their own agenda's and approach in these matters

But for instance "Ask Fred" charged $.50 per individual to handle registrations for the Long Beach Invitational. My understanding is that they handled the money end and then passed the names and registration information along to the organizers. Perhaps Midi or some other knowlegable person could tell us about the details and problems (I'm sure there must have been some as there always are for new systems).

Bottom line to me is that it is a matter of management making a decision and implementing a contract. Of course there will be caveats and details to be investigated and worked through. There always are. But this is something that Ms. Anderson could do. This is not about implementing a new computer system or even purchasing one. It's about contracting for a service.

[KD5MDK]

I asked a friend what a shopping cart system, fairly customized would cost (this is his living). He estimated his company could do what we wanted for $20,000 or less, depending on what we wanted. If we know precisely what that is.

I suspect the problem is the people with the authority to set things in motion don't understand what it will take to do it (and know they don't), and so they're happy to just put it off till it's someone else's problem. I doubt there's active malice involved, just people not wanting to deal with something they don't understand.

[NoFleche]

Likewise Duel in the Desert is registering fencers on line. So your argument about the differences in govt's and legal systems doesn't hold up.

You can register for DitD online but you still have to pay and sign waivers by mail or in person. So while there is no doubt Tanya and Evan will run a great, 1st class event as they always do, fencers can look forward to waiting in the check-in line while your fellow competitor in front of you (a) fishes around the bottom of their fencing bag for their USFA card, (b) fishes around the bottom of their bag for their checkbook, (c) finds a pen to write the check for their entry fees, (d) reads the waiver, (e) signs and dates the waiver in 3 places (or worst case, is 16 and now has to call mom on the cell phone to come down from the hotel room to sign it). *sigh* Be sure to get there early!

In the absence of online payment and waivers, all online registration gets us is a good preview of who's coming. So . . . which tournaments in the U.S. are ACTUALLY allowing online waivers right now???