Petition to recall USFA President

[sabersaber]

on 2 previous recent threads "Moving the USFA Forward" and the "FYI US National Coaches fired" you can start to see into some of the problems the USFA is having, being discussed. In the Moving the USFA forward thread it is actually mentioned there as an option. Certainly the continuing and unbelievable disaster of the USFA website frequent crashes is a terrible embarrassment and a huge source of frustration. Just yesterday I was trying to access the site for the Pittsburgh NAC results and it was down again... disgusting! In the coaches fired thread, well it says alot.

At least some people are out there who are tired of just complaining and have decided to make a hard decision to take some action and get whatever out into the open. Now if we can get some more specific reasons so we can make an informed decision and not just keep speculating here. . .

[dr.lutz]

Nancy Anderson is well-intentioned but ill-equipped for the job.
She has no vision, no control over the National Office, allowed the international program to whither on the vine.
Why don't we have online entries yet?
Why does our website crash all the time?
Why didn't the USFA take advantage of the Athens Olympic medals?
Why does she come to meetings without agendas?
Why does she fail to delegate?
Why does she micromanage?

Are you aware that we have not publicly named National Coaches or authorized the weapon budgets, and we are a year and a quarter into the quad?

Are you aware that the Executive Director has been allowed to basically pocket-veto the online entries?

Are you aware that the Treasurer has been unable to get a detailed budget from the Executive Director?

The problem starts at the top, but is most definitely not liminted to Nancy.

However, her complete and total failure in the position can not be ignored while our organization goes backwards.

Our membership has tripled in the last decade, yet we operate as a Mom and Pop dime store.

At the end of the day, regardless of shortcomings in the international area and in the National Office (see: Executive Director!), the President's inability to right the ship warrants her recall.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Alrighty.... after talking with some people, and thinking, here is my absolutely meaningless opinion on the subject.

The president of the USFA is a great scapegoat for all the failings of the USFA. Yeah, its messed up, and when something is messed up, the biggest bird bird gets shot. Its not right. She probably is not responsible for everything wrong with the USFA. Pin pointing the failings of the USFA, the people responsible, and the actions neccasary, is the 1st step.

Example: If there is a problem with the website, its the webmasters problem. Get a new webmaster, hire a webmaster service, merge it with AskFred or f101, DO SOMETHING BESIDES FIRING SOMEONE WHO HAS BIGGER PROBLEMS THAN THE WEBSITE. Firing Anderson for not getting a good website together would be like firing bush if the whitehouse website sucked. The people on the cutting block need to be relevant to the problem.

I don't know much about running an organization, but I know that nothing ever gets done when people fail to act.

[dr.lutz]

Yup, you're right. Michael Massik should be fired, too.

But, at the end of the day, the President is ultimately responsible for her total lack of leadership.

You can throw blame all around, but the buck stop with the President.

She is responsible for failing to hold the Executive Director accountible for the massive failures of the National Office, the crashing website, and his pocket-veto of online entries.

She is responsible for assembling a High Performance Committee that has set our international program back immeasurably.

She is responsible for failing to capitalize on the Olympic medals.

She is responsible for failing to have a Strategic Plan.

She is solely responsible for lying to the National Coaches at the Junior Worlds in Linz. She had a meeting with them, made promises, and promised to get back to them in ten days with the answers.

In ten months, she has yet to give our National Coaches the courtesy of the call she promised them.

She is responsible for usurping the power of the Athletes Advisory Group, completely ignoring their choice for FIE Athlets Rep, and going against the rules by selecting her own choice. The choice was fine, the process was not.

She has failed miserably in every aspect of her job. The USFA can't afford her lack of leadership for three more years.

If a state of 35 million can recall its governor, our organization of 25 thousand can do the same.

Sometimes tough decisions must be made. This one, however, is not so tough.

Actually, it is quite the no-brainer.

[Army Fencer]

You are making some very strong accusations that only an insider would know without backing them up with any evidence.

I want to know who you are and what your credentials are.

[dr.lutz]

The veracity of the accusations is the only relevant concern.

We don't have online entries, our website regularly crashes, and the membership is incapable of getting through to a living person when calling the office.

So, that's pretty self-explanatory.

National Coaches were not named for the year and a half after the Athens Olympics and the Athletes Handbook was full of mistakes.

So, that's pretty clear. If you don't think we've been set back, ask the National Coaches.

The thing with the Athletes Rep to the FIE happened. If you have doubts, contact the Chair of the Athletes Advisory Group.

She lied to the coaches in Linz. If you doubt it, contact the National Coaches who were lied to.

She didn't capitalize on the Olympic success. If you have any doubts, contact the two medalists.

[Army Fencer]

The veracity of the accusations is the only relevant concern.

I agree completely.

She is solely responsible for lying to the National Coaches at the Junior Worlds in Linz. She had a meeting with them, made promises, and promised to get back to them in ten days with the answers.

How do you know this? What were the promises? What lies did she make?

In ten months, she has yet to give our National Coaches the courtesy of the call she promised them.

How do you know this?

She is responsible for usurping the power of the Athletes Advisory Group, completely ignoring their choice for FIE Athlets Rep, and going against the rules by selecting her own choice. The choice was fine, the process was not.

How do you know this? Are there minutes that show this?

As the accuser, the burden of proof is on you.

[Peach]

The veracity of the accusations is the only relevant concern..

For veracity, it does matter who is making the accusations; we always have plenty of people in fencing who can muster up paranoid certainty at the drop of a mask. Some of them are yo-yos and others are justified in their paranoia, but anonymous accusations make it impossible to distinguish the difference.

The accusers might be fabricating their accusations and be afraid of being named because they are not, in fact, in the know; the accusers might have thoroughly questionable motives and be making accusations, whether true or false, in order to further their own agenda;the accusers might have an incomplete picture of the situation and be operating on insufficient evidence, whether selectively or inadvertently; or the accusers might be spot-on. If they are anonymous, there is no way to tell.

This whole thing just strikes me as half-baked. I've survived too many "let's post a petition" initiatives to be much impressed.

[whtouche]

I concur with the sentiment that for any of these accusations, or this petition or this website, to be taken seriously or even deserve further discussion that the people behind it step forward and be named.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't attempt to overthrow someone from anonymity, presumably reaping the reward if you are successful, while hiding your identity incase you fail.

How can you expect to be taken seriously in this way?

If they are reasonable accusations, step forward and be named. Let it be known that you specifically will not tolerate these alleged goings on, instead of telling US that WE shouldn't tolerate it.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Whine whine whine ... the President's inability to right the ship warrants her recall.

Bah. This proposed political response is horrendously out of proportion to the allegation.

[Feltan]

The veracity of the accusations is the only relevant concern.

Yes and no.

Certainly a strong argument can be constructed in aninimoty if you have the access and information. Such an argument can become compelling.

However, a recall is simply not about the veracity of the accusations. What if the people behind this were a bunch of no-nothing scrubs who listen well or guess well? Are we to remove one leader only to replace her with someone equally out of their depth?

No, the leaders of a revolution generally don't get to rabble rouse from the safety of aninimoty.

Make your case; put your name(s) to it. If you are right and just you may succeed, but right now you do not seem to have the courage of your convictions -- and that will inspire no one to join you, and risks what credibility your accusations may have.

Regards,
Feltan

[achilleus]

Yes and no.

Certainly a strong argument can be constructed in aninimoty if you have the access and information. Such an argument can become compelling.

However, a recall is simply not about the veracity of the accusations. What if the people behind this were a bunch of no-nothing scrubs who listen well or guess well? Are we to remove one leader only to replace her with someone equally out of their depth?

No, the leaders of a revolution generally don't get to rabble rouse from the safety of aninimoty.

Make your case; put your name(s) to it. If you are right and just you may succeed, but right now you do not seem to have the courage of your convictions -- and that will inspire no one to join you, and risks what credibility your accusations may have.

Regards,
Feltan

The above is very well said, and I'll second it.

Dr.lutz, and those who wrote the petition should have the balls to say who they are, specify the exact issues, and what they plan to do differently if Ms. Anderson is recalled. Why should we listen to people too afraid to use their names? Why should we trust anonymous sources to do a better job than the current president? How can we even trust this isn't some bizarre political smear campaign?

Man, politics suck, but fencing politics absolutely blow.

[Epeecurean]

In response to the anonymity questions...

Mr. Epee has already sussed out some of the names: national ME coach Paul Soter and Cathy Zagunis (presumably related to Olympic gold medalist Mariel Zagunis) worked on the petition document.

We see another thread started by US Olympic fencer Dan Kellner ('Moving the USFA forward') which starts out "Given all the recent problems with the USFA" and which also brings up the possibility of a presidential recall before the petition even appeared on fencing.net.

And then we have the thread about the national WE coach Gary Copeland and program manager Andrea Lagan being fired.

So based on this, the opening line of the petition, "Many Olympians, Athletes, National Coaches, Cadre members and parents feel it is time for a change", to me seems very credible. They are NOT scrubs.

I can think of reasons why this group of people might wish to retain their anonymity. If you are an elite fencer or coach, and you are dedicating your time and effort to the sport, do you want to risk your entries to World Cups being mishandled, program money withheld, etc.? Or, alternately, the petitioning group retains goodwill to the president as a person and doesn't want to make it a personal attack on her or her intentions, but more a question of her capabilities and competence for the role.

I would imagine that as a group they are genuinely concerned about the prospects for US fencing's international results over the current quadrennial ending at the Beijing Olympics.

[whtouche]

I can think of reasons why this group of people might wish to retain their anonymity. If you are an elite fencer or coach, and you are dedicating your time and effort to the sport, do you want to risk your entries to World Cups being mishandled, program money withheld, etc.? [b]Or, alternately, the petitioning group retains goodwill to the president as a person and doesn't want to make it a personal attack on her or her intentions, but more a question of her capabilities and competence for the role.[b]

How exactly would attaching their names to this movement allofasudden make it into a personal attack?

[dr.lutz]

May I make a suggestion?

Instead of focusing on the person or people behind the movement, could you please take a deep breath and consider why that movement is being made?

Can you accept that the group is comprised of, or supported by, National Coaches, Parents, Athletes, Athletes Representatives, Board Members, and some members of the Executive Committee?

Please understand that those spearheading this effort have no interest in any political position, which further illustrates their motive is not selfish nor petty, but rather in the best interests of the entire membership.

Please understand that Nancy was directly contacted and told about the movement in advance. She was respectfully asked to resign before this went public.

Her response, yet another in a long lone of bad choices, was to immediately go public with what should have stayed private. She contacted her entire board and the recall was hence "outed."

She was asked to resign this past weekend at the Pittsburgh NAC, after hundreds of signatures had already been collected. Her response was to fight a losing battle.

Every possible honorable option to resign was offered to her. People went to great lengths to keep this under wraps as a means to protect the USFA and Nancy.

Instead, she chose the wrong option, sadly for her, and sadly for the organization.

Think about it for a second: Nancy is the only one in this process concerned about political position or power. Based on the groundswell of support and the composition of the group leading the recall, sometimes you have to accept the inevitable.

She hasn't.

Again, while it is normal to look at accusations with a jaundiced eye, and question the motives of those behind the recall, eventually you have to understand those motives are pure and in the best interests of the USFA.

These people are willing to take a huge political risk with no possibility of political gain.


You have to ask yourself: Why would they do this?

They have put the USFA ahead of themselves.

In direct contrast, Nancy, in this situation, has put herself and her political position ahead of what is best for the USFA.

The reality is that the necessary signatures will be collected, Nancy will be removed, and the USFA will be able to move forward.

The sad part is that she never accepted she was not up to the job, and that she chose to go public instead of resigning gracefully.

[downunder]

The sad part is that she never accepted she was not up to the job, and that she chose to go public instead of resigning gracefully.

give me some evidence she isn't - that can actually be backed up.

Honestly i couldn't care less about the politics in US fencing - but as a neutral bystander i am very much confused about what the hell is going on.


edit: and you still haven't suggested any alternatives.

Its very easy to be an armchair critic. Perhaps if you had assisted/nominated for these commitees then something more might have been done?

[Allen Evans]

Political processes work the best when they involve facts - not speculation - and transparency rather than secrecy. This thread begins by admonishing the current USFA leadership for these failings while, at the same time, instantly replicating the very same errors.

The USFA has problems, and certainly no one disagrees with that. Some of these problems are simply annoying (lack of on line registration for events) and some of them are more serious (the lack of transparency in decisions made by the USFA). A “Secret Squirrel” petition process to remove only one officer doesn’t begin to address these problems, and, in fact, just makes the climate murkier.

My name is on my posts in this forum. This forces me to think about what I say, and make sure that when I say something, I have my facts right. It means that fencers and coaches can look at what I say, compare it to what I do and teach, and come to a conclusion about whether or not I know what I am doing. I respect the decision of others to remain anonymous on this board, but anonymous petitions are a poor substitute for leadership and good ideas. Isn’t that what we need?

[dr.lutz]

The recall process is provided for in the USFA By-Laws. It is not an anonymous game or something, as those in favor of the recall sign the petition.

If the necessary signatures are received, the EC then chooses one of the current VPs to assume the presidency on an interim basis for 90 days.

The logical choice from the current three is Sam Cheris.

He is a former USFA President, Chair of the High Performance Committee, Chair of the Fencing Officials Committee, FIE Memebr of Honor, former member of the FIE Executive Committee, and current Chair of the FIE Legal Commission.

He is the best person for the position, and should have nominated by the Nominating Committee in the first place.

Sam is the most experienced and competent person available, and I sincerely doubt that the USFA membership will disagree.

[Andrea]

In response to the anonymity questions...

...And then we have the thread about the national WE coach Gary Copeland and program manager Andrea Lagan being fired.
etc...

I would lke to be clear that Gary and I are not involved in this action, or have any more knowlegde about it, other than what has been publicly circulating.

[whtouche]

Can you accept that the group is comprised of, or supported by, National Coaches, Parents, Athletes, Athletes Representatives, Board Members, and some members of the Executive Committee?

I'm sure alot more people would have a much easier time accepting this if you just told us who you are.
I still don't understand why you're hiding.

There are only so many national coaches, board members, members of the EC, and athlete representatives. From this group some of the people in your company can be extrapolated. So why not come out with your identities? Why the guessing game? Doesn't saying that your supporters come from a specific, small group of people mean that even those who aren't involved then come under suspicion? By not naming yourselves you drag in those who might not necessarily want to be involved.

Please understand that those spearheading this effort have no interest in any political position, which further illustrates their motive is not selfish nor petty, but rather in the best interests of the entire membership.

I don't doubt this, but again it would be much easier to accept if you weren't being so clandestine about it.

[quote]
These people are willing to take a huge political risk with no possibility of political gain.
[quote]

Huge political risk by starting a movement steeped in anonymity?
That doesn't seem logical to me. I don't doubt that at least some of the members of this movement are not anonymous to some people. SOMEONE had to ask her to resign, right? So if you will name yourselves or at least some of yourselves, representatives of your group, to the target of your campaign, why not let the public in on the secret as well? What are you hiding?

You have to ask yourself: Why would they do this?

They have put the USFA ahead of themselves.

Again I don't doubt this, but also once again much easier to swallow if it didn't seem so much as if you have something to hide.

I want it to be known that I have not formed an opinion on this matter personally; I'm busy with end of semester work, including exams and other stressful issues that pull my attention elsewhere. Don't take my calls to pull back the veil as an attack on the movement itself. But I feel myself and others have in this thread raised some questions that bear answering.

In the interest of public disclosure let me speculate a little bit. At the NAC in pittsburgh this past weekend I was standing around watching some fencing when steve mormando approached a group of prominant sabre fencers and asked if they wanted to sign his petition. Later in the conversation, which was brief, he mentioned that it was actually Jeff Bukkantz's petition. A number of the fencers looked it over, were surprised by it and were wary of signing it. Mr. Mormando assured them that there would be plenty of signatures, that they would be in good company with very high level fencers.

I wasn't eaves dropping so this is all I overheard or even really cared about, and there very well may be no connection between this and that.
But maybe there is and maybe now we know the identities of two more people involved in this movement.
Maybe this can be a game, issue-neutral, to see how many of these people's identities can be discovered. Someone keep a list