Petition to recall USFA President

[k9fav]

Originally posted by Inquartata

So, is this really all about the elites, like 99% of the USFAs concerns have always been about? If so, why ought the rest of us care enough to put the organization through the expense and turmoil of a recall?

If they are treating the elites this way how can we then expect them to treat us, the rank and file? It's a BAD sign, and obviously an all time bad sign since its the first time that I know of a recall petition happening. So things must be REALLY REALLY bad at the top. We have coaches,parents and fencers giving their all to get better,spending hard earned $ for classes, traveling, tournament entries, equipment, etc. doing the fun but hard work of training to hopefully get ranked (or their child ranked) enough to make a team and for what? To get treated in what manner? Who are the "elites"? They are fencers who sweated, grunted and did the everyday HARD WORK to get there, rank and file fencers whose tremendous efforts got them some ranking. So should we care about them? YES because they are us, because they represent many of our and our children's hopes and dreams - to make the US national team, to represent this country, and if for no other reason than that they are fellow fencers.

Personally I have noticed a decline in service, I have not once received a return email from anyone at the NO. Out of 8 times I called there I got someone to pick up twice (the person who picked up was nice but very harried). The website crashes are truly frustrating. In Pittsburgh one event ended at around 10:30 at night - way too late. And the list of reasons given deserve serious consideration. I have overheard parents of and national team members and coaches at NAC's complaining about almost everything in the list. So I believe there is validity in many of the reasons.

I have met Ms. Anderson on several occasions, she was pleasant and nice, however, being nice and NOT doing your work wouldn't be tolerated at any other job. Also after reading this entire thread, I think that you don't shoot the messenger. When the house is on fire you don't wait for reconstruction plans to put the fire out. First put out the fire then move forward.

This recall is a very serious thing, not to be done lightly, so I appreciate all the postings and comments here - it's made me really think about this. I don't need to be a follower and wait to see who's backing the petition to sign it, I can make my own decisions based on facts. I have emailed several national coaches, and others who have personally known Ms. Anderson for many years - so I can have more info. Once I feel fully informed I will make up my own mind and not wait to see who is "behind" this petition recall. The messenger arrived, I'm not going to shoot him/her.

[Repechage]

Sorry if you don't get it.

Oh, gosh.

And I'm sorry your side appears to be arrogant, inflexible, and wilfully ignorant. Try to see where other people are coming from, answer our questions, stop being so pompous, and you might persuade us that you offer something. Right now, it seems as if your alternative to the (alleged) benign neglect of Nancy Anderson would be a group of stiff-necked, opinionated, inside-track, hectoring dictators.

[Inquartata]

While the International Program is in disarray, as best illustrated by the FACT that National Coaches have yet to be officially selected, most of the the membership is not affected by that.

Yet it seems to be the main motivating factor behind the recall...

As for #1, every USFA member has been negatively affected by the failure to institute online entries.

How can we know this? How does one evaluate the benefit of something one has never had? Online registration has never been an option, so how can I miss it? It's absence doesn't really affect me one way or the other.

It would be a nice thing to have, but the world isn't going to end if it never happens, is it?

As for #2, many members have been negatively affected by the failure of the National Office to respond to telephone inquiries. That's mainly because the staff is buried under the massive amount of NAC entries they have to process.

I have never had to call the National Office for anything, so I cannot speak for "many members", only myself. It has not affected me personally.

What is the intended new regime's answer to the "massive amount of NAC entries", by the way? Could it be---make fewer people eligible for NACs? Or fewer NACs?

Now, THAT would affect me...

As for #3, this has negatively affected many members specifically when the website has crashed on at least the last three deadlines for entries for the last the NACs.

That's a fair cop. It's been more of an annoying inconvenience than anything more serious for me, though. And to be fair, the old website had the same problem...

As for the website, the organization, as a whole, has been negatively affected due to the crashes. To think that the website was down for nearly two weeks following the Athens Olympic medals is hard to believe, as that period of time brought the USFA the most visibility ever.

It was irritating, to be sure. I'm not sure it rises to the level of justifying the expense and acrimony of a recall, though.

One last question: if this recall is as you insist a done deal that is "going to happen" no matter what we think or do, why bother to keep posting justifications for it? Why do we need to be convinced if the recallers have already gotten their way?

[MikeHarm]

One of the things thats interesting to me is that I had this idea in my head that for a top coach I always imagined to get to the top you had to be a do it yourself, strong willed sort of person. Kind of someone with the character of John Wayne, someone who would look you in the eye and not back down and have everything together in everything they do focused on track and determined. Instead from reading this portrayal Doctor Lutz gives us they sound unable to manage their own affairs without handholding and having someone to page constantly. I guess things aren't always what you imagine.

[Inquartata]

If they are treating the elites this way how can we then expect them to treat us, the rank and file?

So we should act on the basis of the possibility of problems, someday?

Who are the "elites"? They are fencers who sweated, grunted and did the everyday HARD WORK to get there, rank and file fencers whose tremendous efforts got them some ranking. So should we care about them? YES

Agreed. But they are not the end-all be-all that they seem to have become to the USFA. And that emphasis long predates Ms. Anderson's tenure.

My question is: why accept the expense, the turmoil and the angst of a recall which seems to be driven in the main by the concerns of a tiny minority of people at the top?

Personally I have noticed a decline in service,

Hmm. Maybe we need a poll to determine how many of the members have noticed a decline in service or been discommoded by an Anderson policy...

[dr.lutz]

[QUOTE=Inquartata]

My question is: why accept the expense, the turmoil and the angst of a recall which seems to be driven in the main by the concerns of a tiny minority of people at the top?




What expense?

Yes, the turmoil will be short-term and well worth it!

The angst? The angst for the next three years is not worth the angst of the next three months.

The concerns of a TINY minority?

Well, you are sadly mistaken on that point.

You are in the minority.

[Inquartata]

Not judging by the sample of respondents on this site...

But again, if you're so assured of victory, why bother trying to convince us to join your crusade?

[dr.lutz]

Not judging by the sample of respondents on this site...

But again, if you're so assured of victory, why bother trying to convince us to join your crusade?

Either because I am stubborn idiot or because I believe very strongly in what I am preaching. Or, both.

To be completely candid, it is extremely frustrating to see postings that either go off on irrelevant tangents or are just plain misguided on the issue at hand.

In any case, I feel strongly that every USFA member deserves to hear the truth; so, while some, like John Matus from Alaska complain about being out of the loop of importance, I choose to respond to each person on this site.

Nothing is worse than the alienated feeling of being an outsider. I've been there, and to a great extent, am there now.

While many prominent players within the USFA have supported the recall, it has been the rank and file which has provided the bulk of the signatures that will make it succeed.

And while I know that the International Program is in shambles, I know from speaking to so many members that the problems, in their eyes, are mainly in the National Office, the Regional Youth Circuit, and the NACs.

Hope that answered your question.

[oiuyt]

The Regional Youth Circuit system has been cited here a number of times by Dr. Lutz and others as a problem, but without specifics. What is perceived as the problem (other than the compeltely genericized "putting it in the charge of the anti-RYC forces" or some such)?

I'm aware of some of Eric's (Heretic) complaints from previous threads. Some of which were valid, others less so. Some of the valid complaints have been subsequently fixed. What do you feel is wrong with the system as it currently stands, and how do you suggest to improve it?

-B

[Inquartata]

Well---the guide us. With concrete examples, not broad, nonspecific charges like "the International Program is in shambles" or "she's just so obviously incompetent".

The website issue is obvious to all ( notwithstanding the question of whether that can be fairly laid at her door ). Etc. Give us the skinny on the behind-the-scenes problems you claim are so awful...

As for frustration, welcome to the wonderful world of politics.

[duel mom]

I remember reading on this board that it was taking a long time for a decision to be made as to who won the RYC bid in Northern California. So long in fact that it could impact the success of the season.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

To be completely candid, it is extremely frustrating to see postings that either go off on irrelevant tangents or are just plain misguided on the issue at hand.

The Good Doctor should have noticed long before this that irreverence and thread drift are well-cherished institutions on this board.

[counterattack]

Well, I for one signed the petition in Pittsburgh, and I still think it was the right thing to do. I get bothered by incompetence and lack of leadership. I don't know who the new leader would be. There is a process to take care of that and it will play out on its own.

I will however say that the tone and methods of Dr. Lutz put me off. If those posts, rather than face-to-face discussions with people, were my introduction to this movement I would surely not be behind it. The posts are almost manic and don't give one the impression that they are being forthright. The "we will prevail! Victory is assured!" comments make you feel like you are about to be impressed by a fascist army.

But, since the posts on this thread lately have been almost universally negative to the recall, I figured I'd just throw in my two cents, since I've been following quietly.

The negatives:

-The recall movement has been a bit "behind the scenes" unless you are near certain clubs or groups.
-Sam Cheris is the likely replacement and he and his wife are not liked by many, and many imply they don't trust him to do well for fencing.
-We don't want the USOC to think our house is in disarray.

The positives:
-Losing Nancy Anderson. She is not a good leader. She might not be terrible, she might only be below average, previous leaders might not have been much better. So what? She is not good at her job. And claims that "I hear back from her in days or hours" actually hurt her case. That means she screens her calls and only fields the ones that are easy or the ones from people she likes. I think there is wisdom in ALWAYS striving to have competence at the helm.
-What are we scared of from Sam Cheris? That he will give Zach the keys to President's Porsche? That he will try and get Elaine into the next Olympics also? I don't think these are real threats. I am sure he could do some harm, as can any competent or incompetent person who tries or doesn't try. There is always that risk. I think on balance some experience and ability will be worth the risks. There are opportunity costs to holding on to bad leadership also.
-I don't think the USOC frowns too strongly on sports that show an active interest in good governance and who follow their bylaws to effect change.

I don't think anyone expects a major change no matter what happens here. But a small change for the better is still good. Other than getting Sam Cheris as prez, what other possible bad outcomes are people worried about from ditching Ms. Anderson?

[Steve Khinoy]

What I would need to know before deciding whether or not to sign the petition... and whether to urge my club members and students to sign it or to reject it...
1) Who has signed the letter sent to Nancy Anderson, and what *specific* issues do they cite? When it appears on the Save US Fencing website, let's all read it. Until it appears (or doesn't), let's not ask for names or accuse people of cowardice for not coming forward.
2) If National Coaches haven't been appointed, why not? It can't be simply that Nancy Anderson refuses to appoint them out of spite. Probably there's been a variety of very strong opinions about who should get the jobs.
3) Similarly, if no Director of International Programs has been appointed, why not?
4) What's the actual story on the decision about withdrawing athletes from the World University Games?
5) Most importantly, why isn't it possible for the Executive Committee to step up and take charge -- in other words, cover up for a weak President in order to prevent the USFA from giving itself a black eye?

What we don't need to know is why the website crashes, why there are scheduling problems, why the National Office is overworked, why the Pittsburgh NAC was scheduled to coincide with a snowstorm, and so on,-- all the systemic problems that aren't within the direct control of the President, who is NOT responsible for the day-to-day running of the organization, and that have been problems since I can remember.

What we also don't need is the nasty tone that has taken over this discussion.

Steve Khinoy

[Schiavona]

In any case, I feel strongly that every USFA member deserves to hear the truth; so, while some, like John Matus from Alaska complain about being out of the loop of importance, I choose to respond to each person on this site.

Nothing is worse than the alienated feeling of being an outsider. I've been there, and to a great extent, am there now.

I was being more than slightly sarcastic about being "out of the loop". My division, which I helped found, has always been "out of the loop".

Yes, we are part of the USFA. Yes, we hold competitions and train fencers. Does anything that Dr. Lutz has laid at Anderson's feet affect us day-to-day? No. And putting Sam back in the driver's seat won't change things for us either.

The vast majority of USFA members are U class fencers. How does any of this affect them? I really would rather the Board had handled this-if Anderson really is a problem. I know a couple of members and trust their opinion.

Your statement that the Board would vote her out in a secret ballot says volumes, if true.
It says that;
2/3 of the Board are afraid of hurting her feelings.
2/3 of the Board put themselves ahead of the good of the USFA.
2/3 of the Board won't do their jobs.
2/3 of the Board are afraid of Anderson's Pony Riding Death Squads.
Or 2/3 of the Board don't see the problems you do.

[Schiavona]

By the way, I agree with Steve's post!

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Either because I am stubborn idiot or because I believe very strongly in what I am preaching. Or, both.

Since you have been posting a lot about this I am sure that the 2nd applies. Since there have been repeated calls for recall people to reveal their identities or answer why that can not be done, and you have not responded, I also believe that the 1st applies.

BTW: My username is also my real name.

Tell me: You blame Nancy A for not being responsive to fencers. Why should anybody believe that you are better in that regard, when you do not respond to the identity question?

Also: you have repeatedly claimed that you are not doing this for your own political power gain. Why are we to believe you? Since you have not said who you are, we can not judge from your previous actions to see whether that statement rings true? Do you honestly beleive that "just saying it" is enough to make you believe you? If so, you are quite mistaken.

To be completely candid, it is extremely frustrating to see postings that either go off on irrelevant tangents or are just plain misguided on the issue at hand.

I feel you pain, this has bugged me too on numerous occasions. However, that is how most web discussion boards are, and you just have to deal with it.

While many prominent players within the USFA have supported the recall, it has been the rank and file which has provided the bulk of the signatures that will make it succeed.

So, if it is certain that it will succeed, why bother further? If they know that they are one the ultimately winning side, why do they not step forward? If nancy is going to be ousted, what have they to be afraid of?

One thing is conspiciously absent: If you think Nancy is a failure, what has the USOC done about it? have you reported her failure to the USOC? If so, what have they said and done? If not, why not?

In the olden days, someone who wanted to challenge with sword in hand but was not willing to reveal his identity would have gotten a very dim reception indeed.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[nahouw]

4) What's the actual story on the decision about withdrawing athletes from the World University Games?

The USOC finances the team to go to the World Univesity games, so I don't know why many of the teams didn't go -- USFA money was a none-issue. I know that the Women's Epee team were notified in the midst of the team competition at Summer Nationals and had to make a quick decision in order to be able to go.

[Sciurus-Rex]

I signed the petition ... as "Abraham Lincoln." He was a great fencer, pastry chef and believer in unity. Will that count?

Speaking of which, I expect that there will be a thorough process to confirm the validity of signatures this group of complainers finally submit, eh?

Yes, it's another expense in time and/or money. Recalls aint cheap.

[heretic]

The Regional Youth Circuit system has been cited here a number of times by Dr. Lutz and others as a problem, but without specifics. What is perceived as the problem (other than the compeltely genericized "putting it in the charge of the anti-RYC forces" or some such)?

I'm aware of some of Eric's (Heretic) complaints from previous threads. Some of which were valid, others less so. Some of the valid complaints have been subsequently fixed. What do you feel is wrong with the system as it currently stands, and how do you suggest to improve it?

-B

Though I’ve never actually met Brad, I know that he’s a worker, and I respect that, so I feel compelled to address the above referenced quote.

I have been involved in regionalization since the beginning. It became a reality when previous USFA President Stacey Johnson took it seriously and enfranchised the RYC under Wendell Kubick. When Nancy took “control”, the existing committe was unceremoniously scrapped in favor of an oligarchy dominated by Ro Sobalvarro, who repeatedly stated he opposed regionalization. Regions were then arbitrarily redefined, no legitimate effort was made to identify who was or could do large events across the country, and they (Nancy and her appointees) ignored numerous inquiries regarding scheduling or event designations. We were in limbo for one year (2004-5) because there was no responsive leadership or plan in place. That season, for the first time since regionalization was adopted, Regional Youth Competitions experienced declining attendance on a national basis. This is a direct result of the committee’s failure to set policy and communicate on a timely basis. The only bright spot was Andrea’s website.

When the previous committee asked Stacey to facilitate a policy, she always responded. Ms Anderson – never (except for the cat pictures).

I am neither an “insider,” nor an elitist. I have worked hard to hold successful large youth events, which serve a critical constituency of US fencing, and have never profited personally from my endeavors. Ms Anderson has no vision of her own, is oblivious to requests for constructive dialogue (let alone criticism), and fails to vet her key committee appointments.

I speak from first hand experience, in addition to others with whom I have discussed these problems and reported similar issues.

Sam might not be the Messiah, but Nancy has made me a heretic.