Petition to recall USFA President

[downunder]

The National Office is a mess. No members can get a living person to answer a phone, and some never receive returned messages.

We don't have online entries! Incredible.

The International Program is a mess, as proven by the fact that National Coaches haven't been named since ATHENS!

The website crashes all the time.

We have no plan.

We didn't capitalize on the once-in-a-lifetime Olympic medals!

The buck stops with the president.

See you tomorrow.

christ, be thankful for what you do have.

In Australia we have no office to speak of, National coaches are based in cities and do little coaching beyond that, our website is the worst website in the whole world (http://www.ausfencing.org), aside from FIE competitions i've never been able to enter a competition online in australia or europe.

[Sciurus-Rex]

I didn't fence well tonight. ... Obviously it's the president's fault. Off with her head!

My mother agrees with me, by the way. Based only on her polite, supportive responses to my whining, I must assume the entire world is on my side as well.

So off with her head already! Bad president. Bad.

Really, after this current round of silliness has passed away, someone absolutely must fix the "bylaw" thingies that allow a recall with just 10 percent of membership signatures. That number is so temptingly low that almost any nutty little group of malcontents will believe their personal problems justify the effort.

[Amadeus]

None of it is worth destroying the USFA so Sam Cheris can be president.

thank you, that's what i've been trying to say.

we can't recall a president every time we don't like him or her, or even if they're doing a bad job. What happens in 2 months when the website still sucks and the national office is still inefficient, do we recall the next president?

we will literally tear the usfa apart if we recall a president needlessly.

so I ask again, what has nancy anderson done that is so wrong that it is worth it to destabalize the usfa in order to get her out of office?

also, as i said, i'm not familiar with the situation, so i don't know if this is a political move. But even if it is completely well-intentioned, it sets a dangerous precedent. What will we do in 10 years when the president is regularly removed from office on a purely political basis?

[Feltan]

...Nancy's going down. The only question left is how far she'll drag down the entire organization before she is recalled.

I wonder who is really dragging the organization down after I read your posts.

You claim the recall is all but a done deal, but I (and I think others) find that difficult to believe when so many USFA members have no idea that a recall is in the works.

But suppose you are correct and have the signatures....do you think the new President will enjoy a long honeymoon? What is going to happen to so many USFA members' opinions when the first thing they hear about the recall is the installation of a new USFA President?

I don't think the instigators have thought this out. In the absence of legal or moral breaches of conduct, this recall is going to make the organization look bad -- we can't even elect competent people! I think any organization can be forgiven for ridding itself of people who are not playing by the rules; but this whole recall seems to be about how "we can do better if our man Friday is in charge."

So if Nancy goes under the current circumstances, and I believe a good deal of our organization's credibility goes too.

Regards,
Feltan

[Capt. Slo-mo]

As Capt Slo Mo says:
“...Merry Fencing to all, and get on with your life!”

For the record, that was all from the ghost of Aldo Nadi, not me.

[CvilleFencer]

With this petition only going to "important people" in sections and divisions, I now know, offically, that our division is not "important".

Oh don't feel left out my friend. This thread is the first I have heard of it as well. You would think that in the course of getting the support of the members of sections and divisions in the US those that have created this movement would at least mention it to the EC of one of the largest divisions in the SES... Of course I have never spoken to Nancy more than to say hi at NAC's and did not make her e-mail list either!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

We knew there were huge problems with the National Office and with the control-freak games of Executive Director Michael Massik. If Stacey Johnson, the most competent president and person, couldn't control him, how could someone as weak as Nancy?

See...that's one of the weakest points of the whole recall.
Your assessment:
1. Massik is control freak.
2. Most competent former president couldn't control the control freak who is in charge of all day to day operations of USFA.
3. New weak president can't control the control freak.

Solution: get rid of the president, who, JUST LIKE THE MOST COMPETENT FORMER PRESIDENT can't control the control freak.

Umm...hello? And when Emperor Samuel the First can't control the control freak, are we to expect an equally vituperative recall effort from you to remove Sam the 1st?

Anybody else see a logic problem here?

[CvilleFencer]

If you know her so well then how about giving us some background on her. Is she a fencer? And at what level? What is her work experience? I've heard some negative stories about her working for a scholastic testing comparny. But so far no one at all seems to know her well enough to tell the rest of us what she's (personally) done for us, the USFA or fencing that makes her worth keeping.
What does this relate to?? Are you saying she's soley responsible for the USFA's growth? That's absurd.

BTW I've queried my coaches and no one knows her. The only people I've run across that seem to know her are the ones trying to get rid of her. So if you know her so well then how about standing up and saying what you know. And please do try to be .... shall we say "clear" about what you are saying.

Alright, I don't usually get into this sort of thing but you are just out of line. All Tim is saying is that he would like to hear some of the "proof" against what has been said. He is not saying he is the anointed champion of fencing here to save the wronged and pure president of the USFA from the pack of howling demon spawn clawing at the palace gates by spewing forth the CV and personal accomplishments of Nancy. He is just saying that he would like to hear something more than hyperbole from the Cheris camp. As would I for that matter. If you would like to encourage him to share some of his personal experiences with her, how about asking him to do it without being an *******.

As far as your last comment, that is just petty and out of line. It would also likely get you slapped if you made the mistake of saying it in person. Despite his handicap Tim is a valuable contributor to forum discussions, especially in the armoury section. He is also a skilled armourer, an honest equipment vendor and often makes a lot more sense than most of the posters here who don't suffer from Dyslexia.

Some of your comments to date have been useful and somewhat insightful rather I agree with them or not. Going after someone who asks an honest and fair question politely by attacking their disability in just a punk *** ***** thing to do and it needs to stop.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Sam is an incredibly COMPETENT man. He has been a very successful USFA President!

Yes, we remember well those halcyon days of bliss. There was universal on-line registration initiated during his tenure, a phone bank of stunningly attractive former Ma Bell operators stood by 24/7 to answer all our calls, the invulnerable website was full of information updated every 3.4 seconds, there were 20 Level-1 referees for each fencer at NACs and all the events ended by tea time with pink roses for every winner. Pony rides were freely available to everyone with a "C" ranking or higher.

Too bad the following presidents loused everything up so badly.

However, Sam is well aware that the areas the most need improvement are in the following:
1) The National Office
2) The Regional Youth Circuit
3) Streamlining the NACs
4) Professionalizing the USFA!

And his plan for improving them is: (?)

In life, there are no guarantees. We don't know what Sam does to improve the siutation if he does get the nod..!

And yet, you're convinced he's our savior? Now that's blind faith.

In life, one has to make value judgments.!

Like better the devil you know than the devil you don't?

And, quite frankly, most members contacted have done the math: They've chosen to sign the petition!

Most members "contacted" is not the same as most members of the USFA. Do the math. 400 out of 40,000 may not be statistically significant.

[Mo]

The short version:

The National Office is a mess. No members can get a living person to answer a phone, and some never receive returned messages.

This is simply not true. Living people answer the phone all the time. When a crisis happens, more than one person will check to make sure it is resolved. Emails are also quickly answered. Who's lying now?

We don't have online entries! Incredible.

This just doesn't seem to be a big deal. It is coming. We have never had it before. Still not worthy of such a drastic step. Mountains, mole hills....


The International Program is a mess, as proven by the fact that National Coaches haven't been named since ATHENS!

Are fencers still going to meets? I know the Junior Fencers have gone to meets. They are all headed for Budapest tomorrow or the next day. Lots of travel going on. Don't the majority of National coaches know who they are and are they filling the role in spite of not being officially appointed?

The website crashes all the time.

It did for a while. It seems much better now. The old website was a problem which has now been fixed. New things have been added. The website for international competitions was NEVER there before. Now a fencer can look up what they need to know without a fuss.

We have no plan.

You don't have a plan, you just want control. I am sure you have some plans that you don't want people to know about. I am sure that the USFA office has plans you don't know about.

We didn't capitalize on the once-in-a-lifetime Olympic medals!

This is the one that I really don't understand. It is easy to say they didn't capitalize on it. What did you expect? Where are any Olympic Champions showing up? Both Olympic medalists were in school. One is on a scholarship for NCAA. What could have been done for her? Did her school not make enough of a fuss over her? This is a really lame reason to try to totally screw up the workings of the constantly improving USFA.

The buck stops with the president.

When this campaign destroys the USFA, will the buck stop with you?

See you tomorrow.

Please go away. There are things that need to be done and you are not helping at all.

[Steve Khinoy]

Oh don't feel left out my friend. This thread is the first I have heard of it as well. You would think that in the course of getting the support of the members of sections and divisions in the US those that have created this movement would at least mention it to the EC of one of the largest divisions in the SES... Of course I have never spoken to Nancy more than to say hi at NAC's and did not make her e-mail list either!

1) It's still true that the opponents of the recall petition are complaining about anonymous charges while declining to identify themselves. Then again, so is Dr Lutz.
2) Thanks to this bulletin board and the petition website, we are getting much earlier notice of this than we ever would have before. The uSFA is too big now for personal phone calls to "everyone who matters."
3) If the petition gathers enough signatures, Nancy Anerson will then be eligible for re-election. If we want to re-elect her then, we can. Maybe the facts -- and their supporters -- will come out then.

Steve Khinoy
Publisher, SKA SwordPlay Books

[KD5MDK]

I'm rather entertained at the suggestion the Athens medals are a once-in-a-lifetime event, as if we'll never win another Olympic medal. Now that's having a plan.

[Mauler]

And please do try to be .... shall we say "clear" about what you are saying.

CvilleFencer, he probably didn't mean any offense by it.

Jjefferies, as CvilleFencer has mentioned in his response, written communication is not yeoldearmourer's forte. The same goes for a lot of other people here, or for that matter a lot of people out there in general. If you do keep an open mind with a little patience, though, you might benefit from some of yeoldearmourer's experience and unique wisdom in the matters of American fencing.

He's been actively involved with fencing for quite some time now, and he has seen people, ideas and organizations come and go over the decades. His entire family (oh a little army) is bent on contributing their efforts for our sport, with little armourers and referees in training in addition to his wife and oldest daughter who have been serving the USFA as solid National referees -- familiar faces this country's "fencing industry"....

[Schiavona]

I don't think it was so much of a "for VIP's only" type deal. Probably more like a combination of convenience and personal contact than anything else.So don't feel bad if it seems like Alaska was left out of the loop. Let me put it this way.....
*snip*
And yet, only a smallest fraction of this community were even aware of existence of the recall effort.

The tone of my post was supposed to be sarcastic, rather than whining......

[Peach]

You don't have a plan, you just want control.

I think that's what is bothering me most about this (aside from the bang-on-the-pulpit-and-thunder-denunciations tone). And like many other posters, I'm far too acquainted with the USFA to think that any problems it has were caused by its current President or could be fixed just like that by a turnover in presidencies.

[dr.lutz]

Nancy ran unopposed for the position of president. Where was Sam then? It is not a popularity contest but it seems like the petition people are making it into one.

Mo, that is incorrect.

The Nominating Committee chose between Nancy and Sam, as both had their names in the hat.

Those behind the recall are most definitely not making this into a popularity contest. Based on its decision to choose Nancy over Sam, considering the wide disparity in their credentials for the job, only the Nominating Committee can be accused of that.

[yeoldearmourer]

Sam Cheris will run it the way he what to run it. Sam as never been a fencer either. There rumors about him and his ex wife doing a payoff and this is just a rumor. Sam is about power and what makes him Look good not what's best for the USFA. Why didn't he run for President Nancy was unoppesed. When Sam was the president the USFA it wasn't ran any better and a lot more in fighting. I always get my E mail answer and phone calls return and get a live person on the phone. Where is Sam great plan to saved the USFA. A least Nancy did fence. If you don't Kiss Sam butt you he wont listen to. By the Micheal Massik was also the Ex. Dir when Sam was president.

[dr.lutz]

Only a handful who have failed to agree?

Army Fencer, up until now, the recall efforts have basically been through word of mouth, a few phone call, a few emails, and in person at the Pittsburgh NAC.

Yes, it is true that very few people spoken to have either failed to sign the petition or disagreed with the premise that we need stronger leadership right now.

A letter was recently emailed to Nancy asking, once again, for her resignation. It was signed by a large group of those behind the recall, National Coaches, Olympians (past and present), Sectional Chairs, Divisional Chairs, and some members of current USFA Committees or Commissions.

Only after this last plea went to Nancy would an actual campaign begin. That would include contacting as many members as possible, every club, every Sectional and Divisional Officer via email blast or personal calls.

In addition, that letter will be made public both on this site and Save US Fencing. (http://www.geocities.com/save_usfencing/)

[dr.lutz]

There are a hellofalot more than a handful who have no idea about this petition.

Mo, that is absolutely correct. The reason for that is because the only way to get the word out is through a mass email blast, and that has not yet been done.
Up until now, it has only been through piecemail word-of-mouth.


If a majority of people wanted it they would not be afraid to post their names. When it fails and it will fail, the repercussions for trying this power ploy will make them look foolish and vindictive which is why they won't post their names.
Mo

Mo, that is absolutely incorrect. Those behind this are not afraid at all. Nancy knows who they are, and these people have taken this risk on behalf of the membership fully accepting the potential repercussions if the recall fails.

It will not fail.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

And the sith will rule the galaxy once again!


This is getting really gay, really fast. Its pretty clear that some prominent people have an agenda of their own, maybe not a bad agenda, but still an agenda. It is also clear that Nancy has not been great, but has also not foobarred anything beyond what the other presidents have done. The only reason Sam Cheris isnt stating his goals for the presidency is that if he did, and he failed, it would appear as a total power-take. Keeping quiet is obviously the best choice for him, atleast until he gets elected (if he does). As of right now, I don't support the recall, because the leaders of it don't have the balls (or ballsettes, if they're female) to openly announce their opposition of Mrs Anderson. The people we're listening to, who are supporting the recall, might as well be forum bots.