Petition to recall USFA President

[Steve Khinoy]

Originally Posted by keith

perhaps for us uniformed sorts you might provide such a comprehensive list for previous Presidents?

I mean actual details of things they achieved from an adminstrative point of few, just so we can compare.

Something of a New Year's Rant-- and a call for open discussion and free flow of information....

So many people in this discussion are calling for information, and so few are providing it. I'm not just talking about the pseudonymous posters who are complaining about the lack of verified names on the recall petition (why can't we learn what THEIR stake is, if any?). But in general we who are discussing this know so little about any of the issues at stake -- what the leadership of the USFA has (or hasn't) done, how it compares to previous administrations (as Keith asked), what's really going on in the USFA's various fiefdoms, how the USFA's money is being spent.

We don't get this information from our magazine or the newsletters; much underlying info, like the minutes of key meetings, is no longer on the website; and the result is that unless we are friendly with someone on the Executive Committee, we are pretty much in the dark.

I say we have to know a member of the Executive Committee because even the Board of Directors, let alone the Congress, never really gets much information (beyond the minutes of Executive Committee meetings). I've been on the BoD and in the Congress, and believe me, not many people really know what's going on.

Some of us have suggested that we need to run on more of a business model--that is, a corporate model. But the executives of corporations have different interests from their shareholders. And the shareholders have different interests from the customers. In the USFA, we are both the shareholders and the customers. To make this thing work -- I mean really work -- we need not only expert leadership, but effective oversight of the leadership. Which brings me back to our (the members, the customers, the shareholders) need for better information.

The fencing.net forums provide the beginning. But to be effective, we have to move past some of the habits that prevailed in a much smaller and more family-like USFA. I mean the reluctance to be open in our criticisms, our squeamishness about naming names, and the scarcity of specifics in our conversations.

And how come both USFA officials nor their critics are taking part in this discussions (and others like it) under their own names?

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Peach

Nancy was at the Veteran World Championships, and I had a short pleasant conversation with her. She does not seem particularly mythical

Oh, I'm fully convinced she exists, although some of her accusers seem to doubt that from time to time.

[dr.lutz]

Originally Posted by dsapery

Which might pose a problem to the recall effort... the Bylaws require not just signatures from 10% of the voting membership, but it requires that there be at least 10 signatures from EACH section and at least 2 signatures from a majority of the divisions in each section.

David, it will NOT be a problem at all getting 10% of the voting membership, 10 signatures from EACH section, and at least two signatures from a majority of the divisions in each section.

Whether the membership at large is concerned about the International Program, the National Office, the USFA Website, the USFA Regional Youth Circuit, the lack of online entries, or the outright arrogance of the President,
there is something for everyone!

Let me be as candid as possible:

Nancy Anderson is not up to the job. There is virtually nobody who would say otherwise.

The end result is not in question. She will be recalled.

The only result still in question is how far she will drag down the organization before she is recalled.

SHE was given ample chances to resign quietly and gracefully.

SHE chose to make this public by responding to a personal telephone call asking for her resignation by immediately notifying the ENTIRE USFA Board about the recall "threat."

Once she did that, it illustrated the following:

1) NANCY has no idea how bad a job she has done

2) NANCY has no idea whatsoever how broad a national groundswell this recall effort really is

3) NANCY cares more about her political standing than the best interests of the USFA

At this stage of the game, NANCY does NOT control her own destiny.

At this stage of the game, NANCY only controls how the endgame plays out for both her and the USFA

So, when push came to shove, NANCY ANDERSON chose to fight a losing battle and to put the entire USFA through the process of a recall.

For this, she can thank her own awful instincts, as well as all of her "friends and advisors" who chose to enable her INSTEAD of telling her the truth.

And, the truth is that she is in way over her head.

And, the truth is that those who privately admitted that NANCY is not up to the job, but didn't have the courage to tell her to her face, are equally responsible.

They have blood on their hands, too.

The Nominating Committee made a terrible mistake, as they chose warm and fuzzy.

Warm and fuzzy failed miserably.

Now, the USFA needs to stop the bleeding, get back on track, and replace incompetent, warm, and fuzzy, with:

COMPETENT, even if it is cold and cranky.

[KD5MDK]

Who is your "competent"?

[MikeHarm]

I've seen times in business before when you get a new manager and the staff from before who had a relationship with the previous one had all sortsa things promised to them that the new boss didn't buy into and they turn on them and do everything they can to get them fired. This sorta has the feel of that to me particularly the anger you can read in it.

Is it her that is doing everything, or her staff that she picked that came in, or the old guard that came along and didn't like her so much?

[dr.lutz]

[quote=MikeHarm]I've seen times in business before when you get a new manager and the staff from before who had a relationship with the previous one had all sortsa things promised to them that the new boss didn't buy into and they turn on them and do everything they can to get them fired. This sorta has the feel of that to me particularly the anger you can read in it.

Is it her that is doing everything, or her staff that she picked that came in, or the old guard that came along and didn't like her so much?



Let me make this as crystal clear as humanly possible: Nobody disliked Nancy Anderson before she became president.

This is not about personalities. On the contrary, even those who believed that Nancy was ill-equipped for the job prayed that they could pitch in and help her out.

There is no anger. There is frustration. There is a feeling of naivity, as most agreed before she took office that Nancy would not be up to the job.

The sad reality is that nobody expected her to be this bad.

We knew there were huge problems with the National Office and with the control-freak games of Executive Director Michael Massik. If Stacey Johnson, the most competent president and person, couldn't control him, how could someone as weak as Nancy?

Nobody expected everything to go down the tubes.

Nobody expected that National Coaches wouldn't be named as of now!

Nobody expected Nancy to put the Regional Youth Circuit at risk by appointing RYC naysayers in charge!

Nobody expected Nancy to LIE to the National Coaches, as she did at the Junior Worlds last April!

Nobody expected Nancy to hide from repeated emails and phone calls!

AT SOME POINT, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR MAKING EXCUSES FOR AN INCOMPETENT AND ARROGANT PERSON WHO CARES MORE ABOUT HER POLITICAL POSITION THAN SHE CARES ABOUT ALL OF US IN THE USFA!

Nancy's going down. The only question left is how far she'll drag down the entire organization before she is recalled.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I like your writing style. Its very recognizeable. So, if anderson goes away, Sam Cheris will be elected, no? What is his plan? How do we know that he won't mess things up worse?

[dr.lutz]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I like your writing style. Its very recognizeable. So, if anderson goes away, Sam Cheris will be elected, no? What is his plan? How do we know that he won't mess things up worse?

Hopefully, Sam Cheris will be elected.

How the Nominating Committee elected Nancy over Sam in the first place is simply mind-boggling.

Then again...

Sam is an incredibly COMPETENT man. He has been a very successful USFA President, Chair of the USFA High Performance Committee for many, many years, Chair of the Fencing Officials Commission.

He is currently Chair of the FIE Legal Commission, and is a former FIE Executive Vice-President.

Sam is an FIE Member of Honor.

Next to FIE President Rene Roch, Sam received the most votes of ANY candidate for ANY commission at the 2004 FIE Congress!

Sam, if asked to serve, is available. He is NOT campaigning for the position.

However, Sam is well aware that the areas the most need improvement are in the following:

1) The National Office

2) The Regional Youth Circuit

3) Streamlining the NACs

4) Professionalizing the USFA

In life, there are no guarantees. We don't know if Sam gets the nods. We don't know what Sam does to improve the siutation if he does get the nod.

In life, one has to make value judgments.

We know that Nancy Anderson is simply not capable of doing a good job, she's already proven that.

We know that Sam Cheris is capable of doing a good job, he's already proven that.

And, quite frankly, most members contacted have done the math: They've chosen to sign the petition!

This is an easy choice. It is the equivalent of a one-lighter for a referee.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by dr.lutz

Hopefully, Sam Cheris will be elected.

How the Nominating Committee elected Nancy over Sam in the first place is simply mind-boggling.

Then again...

Sam is an incredibly COMPETENT man. He has been a very successful USFA President, Chair of the USFA High Performance Committee for many, many years, Chair of the Fencing Officials Commission.

He is currently Chair of the FIE Legal Commission, and is a former FIE Executive Vice-President.

Sam is an FIE Member of Honor.

Next to FIE President Rene Roch, Sam received the most votes of ANY candidate for ANY commission at the 2004 FIE Congress!

Sam, if asked to serve, is available. He is NOT campaigning for the position.

However, Sam is well aware that the areas the most need improvement are in the following:

1) The National Office

2) The Regional Youth Circuit

3) Streamlining the NACs

4) Professionalizing the USFA

In life, there are no guarantees. We don't know if Sam gets the nods. We don't know what Sam does to improve the siutation if he does get the nod.

In life, one has to make value judgments.

We know that Nancy Anderson is simply not capable of doing a good job, she's already proven that.

We know that Sam Cheris is capable of doing a good job, he's already proven that.

And, quite frankly, most members contacted have done the math: They've chosen to sign the petition!

This is an easy choice. It is the equivalent of a one-lighter for a referee.

Is there anyone else besides Sam Cheris who is fit for the job?

[Amadeus]

has the usfa ever been well run, or well organized, or punctual and efficient? I don't really think so, but this is reflective of a low budget, small membership, and largely volunteer officers, not of bad presidency.

i don't doubt that your new candidate might do a better job than nancy anderson. He might not, but it's possible that he would. Why should we go through all this trouble to completely redo our association rather than waiting for nancy's term to expire like nearly all other organizations would?

if you're going to kick someone out of office, i'd kind of expect them to have done something wrong. Like, really wrong, not the mostly general accusations of the petition. And though, if everything the petition says is correct, she has been far from perfect, possibly even done a bad job, that's no reason to do this recall stuff.

[dr.lutz]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Is there anyone else besides Sam Cheris who is fit for the job?

So far, no other names have surfaced. Of course, everyone's always looking for new names and potential savoirs.

But, may I stress that those behind the recall do not view Sam as just a better choice than Nancy, they view him as the best possible choice right now.

We need someone who have a great wealth of experience, history, and competence.

Not just general competence, which Sam obviously has, but specific competence as a leader.

Again, Sam has been a USFA President, Chair of the USFA HPC, Chair of the FOC, Chair of the FIE Legal Commission, and Member of the FIE Executive Committee.

Leaders are guaranteed to rub people the wrong way. It comes with the the turf.

This should not be a popularity contest. Unfortunately, it became just that when the Nominating Committee inexplicably chose Nancy.

It is time to right the wrong.

[dr.lutz]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

has the usfa ever been well run, or well organized, or punctual and efficient? I don't really think so, but this is reflective of a low budget, small membership, and largely volunteer officers, not of bad presidency.

i don't doubt that your new candidate might do a better job than nancy anderson. He might not, but it's possible that he would. Why should we go through all this trouble to completely redo our association rather than waiting for nancy's term to expire like nearly all other organizations would?

if you're going to kick someone out of office, i'd kind of expect them to have done something wrong. Like, really wrong, not the mostly general accusations of the petition. And though, if everything the petition says is correct, she has been far from perfect, possibly even done a bad job, that's no reason to do this recall stuff.

Amadeus, you need to be objective about this. Nancy has done everything wrong. The USFA is in disarray from top to bottom under her failed leadership.

She is not being impeached for wrongdoing, but rather recalled for no-doing.

It is not in the best interests of the USFA to allow her to run the show for three more years.

It is in the best interests of the USFA to deal with this short-term nuisance in order to prevent us from going backwards for another three years.

The majority isn't always right. But, in this case, there are only a handful who have failed to agree with Nancy's removal.

Sometimes you have to take one step back to go three steps forward.

And, that's exactly what is transpiring now.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by dr.lutz

Amadeus, you need to be objective about this. Nancy has done everything wrong. The USFA is in disarray from top to bottom under her failed leadership.

She is not being impeached for wrongdoing, but rather recalled for no-doing.

It is not in the best interests of the USFA to allow her to run the show for three more years.

It is in the best interests of the USFA to deal with this short-term nuisance in order to prevent us from going backwards for another three years.

The majority isn't always right. But, in this case, there are only a handful who have failed to agree with Nancy's removal.

Sometimes you have to take one step back to go three steps forward.

And, that's exactly what is transpiring now.

how is it falling apart? It looks ok from here.

how is she actively hurting the usfa? I understand that she's unqualified and doesn't do work and all that, but what is actively hurting the usfa? What specifically has gone wrong that can be directly attributed to her lack of responsibility?

i don't disagree with you per se, as i'm not informed about national politics, i'm honestly curious about information.

[dr.lutz]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

how is it falling apart? It looks ok from here.

how is she actively hurting the usfa? I understand that she's unqualified and doesn't do work and all that, but what is actively hurting the usfa? What specifically has gone wrong that can be directly attributed to her lack of responsibility?

i don't disagree with you per se, as i'm not informed about national politics, i'm honestly curious about information.

Amadeus, the various areas of disarray have been specified in this thread. I'm a little tired, so please don't be insulted when I ask you to take a few minutes to review my other postings.

The short version:

The National Office is a mess. No members can get a living person to answer a phone, and some never receive returned messages.

We don't have online entries! Incredible.

The International Program is a mess, as proven by the fact that National Coaches haven't been named since ATHENS!

The website crashes all the time.

We have no plan.

We didn't capitalize on the once-in-a-lifetime Olympic medals!

The buck stops with the president.

See you tomorrow.

[Amadeus]

i've read your other entries, but the problem that your accusations are moslty about failings that the USFA has always had. There were never any online entries, and the national office has always been a mess.

the website has been crashing recently, but that's because it was drastically improved and isn't really done yet. (yeah, it would have been prudent to test the new website before changing to it, but that's nothing to recall a president over. Plus, shouldn't she get credit for actually putting work into the out of date website?)

the only real problem I've seen named that can be directly attributed to the president is the lack of national coaches. I'm just not sure that there's enough reason there to recall the president.

i hadn't made myself clear before, and i apologize for that. I've read all the posts in this thread; i haven't spoken until now because i am unfamiliar with national rules and politics. I just haven't seen a clear and convincing piece of evidence that nancy anderson must be removed or else the usfa will be hurt. (not that she's unqualified for the job, but that she's actively hurting the organization)

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by dr.lutz

The majority isn't always right. But, in this case, there are only a handful who have failed to agree with Nancy's removal.

Only a handful who have failed to agree? If you want to be credible, you have to get the facts correct. You can't even convince the majority of fencers posting on this thread that Ms. Anderson should be removed. How can you claim that the majority is with you?

By the way, nice use of the bandwagon.

[R. Exnicios]

Man, I stop reading fencing.net for a few months and everything goes to hell in a hand basket!

I guess it's good to see that some things never really change.

Soggy but here

Richard

[Mo]

Originally Posted by dr.lutz

So far, no other names have surfaced. Of course, everyone's always looking for new names and potential savoirs.

But, may I stress that those behind the recall do not view Sam as just a better choice than Nancy, they view him as the best possible choice right now.

We need someone who have a great wealth of experience, history, and competence.

Not just general competence, which Sam obviously has, but specific competence as a leader.

Again, Sam has been a USFA President, Chair of the USFA HPC, Chair of the FOC, Chair of the FIE Legal Commission, and Member of the FIE Executive Committee.

Leaders are guaranteed to rub people the wrong way. It comes with the the turf.

This should not be a popularity contest. Unfortunately, it became just that when the Nominating Committee inexplicably chose Nancy.

It is time to right the wrong.

Nancy ran unopposed for the position of president. Where was Sam then? It is not a popularity contest but it seems like the petition people are making it into one.

There is a lot that has been done this year. The new website is running really well now. The information is out there.

True, the team coaches are not finalized as of yet. The position Carla Richards had has not been filled. The USFA is short a paid staffer position, which directly effects programs like the National Coaches. With the winter Os just a month away, the people most qualified are pretty busy.

The recall can directly affect how the USOC feels about the USFA. They are not into dissent and people fighting.

This is pure and simple a power play. The people wanting to get into power have their own agenda. There is no way in hell that they just want to make the USFA all better for all fencers. This is about money and the Olympics and who gets that money.

When this sort of thing happens when a group of persons feel their cause is more deserving than anyone elses. They can wait the two years and work NOW to help the USFA get done what it needs done.

Another thing.
I call the office all the time. I always get an answer. If someone is not there my call is quickly returned. When I send an email it is usually answered before I get up in the morning the next day.

A lot of the charges against Nancy are just BS. None of it is worth destroying the USFA so Sam Cheris can be president. I've seen him in action and that man has his own agenda too. He does not play well with others.

The fact that no one has presented their plan except for generalities proves they don't have a plan.

The USFA has grown like crazy. The office is sooo busy and I imagine with this petition crap, there is a lot of distraction due to it. Meets are huge now and the office does a good job doing the work they do. We always have our entry paperwork on time. I fail to see why online registration is such a huge problem. I believe it will come in the future but it is not a reason for such an uproar.

As Capt Slo Mo says:
“Remember this evening, and remember this night.
Look deep in your hearts, and you’ll do what is right.”

“No one profits from fostering turmoil and strife.
Merry Fencing to all, and get on with your life!”

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Only a handful who have failed to agree? If you want to be credible, you have to get the facts correct. You can't even convince the majority of fencers posting on this thread that Ms. Anderson should be removed. How can you claim that the majority is with you?

By the way, nice use of the bandwagon.

I was talking to a friend of mine in the south. He is a referee and has a fencing club with his wife. He had no idea about the recall.
There are a hellofalot more than a handful who have no idea about this petition.
If a majority of people wanted it they would not be afraid to post their names. When it fails and it will fail, the repercussions for trying this power ploy will make them look foolish and vindictive which is why they won't post their names.
Mo

[DieterS]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but the tone and accusations in this thread sound like a political mugging to me.

1. Repetition of unsubstatiated charges. For example, when and under what circumstances did Nancy LIE to someone? LYING presupposes an intent to deceive. This is a very serious charge that requires evidence that can be verified. A discussion group is not the right forum to conduct such an investigation! INCOMPETENCE is also a vague and subjective charge that can be levied against nearly anyone in any endeavor. There are always complaints and there is always room for improvement. In the absence of published criteria, such a charge is simply a personal attack.

2. Broad assignment of culpability for circumstances that may be beyond the direct control of the USFA president. Is Nancy directly responsible for an NAC snafu? Does she directly control increases or decreases in USFA membership? In business, we set goals that are specific, measureable, and attainable. Against what specific priorities and specific goals has her performance been judged? Again, I do not believe that this discussion group is the appropriate place to evaluate Nancy's performance against previously specified criteria. Furthermore, what responsibility does Michael Massik take in all this? I have no idea, nor do the majority of the readers of this thread.

3. Vague promises for future performance. Certainly, improving coaching programs, NAC organization, and USFA responsiness are worthy, if nebulous goals. What specifically will a different USFA president do that Nancy is not doing? Oh, I know--announce the appointment of national coaches. Anyone, even I, can do this in 30 seconds. Maybe Nancy has a reason for delaying this action. Maybe, there's insufficient funding or some other problem. Who knows? I don't, nor do the majority of the readers of this thread.

My past experiences with the USFA organization have been both good and bad. Frankly, from my own experience and from what I've heard lately, it doesn't seem to me that the USFA has changed that much. Unless, Nancy is being charged in a court of law for a felony, I don't believe she should be forced to resign. If certain people are unhappy with her activities, policies, or style, they should run against her in the next USFA election. They should not smear her in a discussion forum.

Dieter