All that said what can the USFA do for the rank and file other than be an enabler? Provide for education of coaches, armorers, directors, arrange for insurance of coaches and clubs in the litigous american society, set national standards and make the connections for the US to be represented internationally. Do we want the USFA interfering more with local activities than they already do? I do know that they have occasionally involved themselves in local situations. Not always in a way that I appreciated.
More involvement by the USFA means that they would have more control. It's the proverbial two edged sword.
J.
Well, they can expand the coaches' college, different time of year, other areas of the country, 2-3 clinics, that sort of thing.
They can pay the FOC people to give the clinics, rather than the local people paying for it (I don't see the USFA involvement here at all).
The divisions we fence in are the USFA, are they not? Some places would seem to benefit from the National Office interfering, but I really don't see how the NO could. At the division level, if I don't like a certain club, the most I could (if Iwere a division officer) would be to screw them up in regards to the USFA! Local or national the USFA only has control over USFA things. There are at least two fencing clubs in my division that don't interact with the division or the USFA. Can the USFA interfer with them? Of course not.
I REALLY, REALLY like the insurance. I remember when it was first extended to the clubs, best thing since sliced bread.
I want programs that will benefit local fencers in my division directly, so I can say, "See? We were able to do this for you because you are a USFA member."
__________________
John Matus
Anchorage Fencing Club
Well we're certainly learning something about "our" organization. From this I take it that the USOC paid for the building or at least originated the funds for the building and that the NGB's housed there pay for the upkeept etc.
Until a couple of years ago the USFA was housed, as were most other NGBs, on the OTC campus. Then the USOC decided that they didn't want to host offices for NGBs without resident athlete programs. The USOC gave a lump-sum payment to some of these NGBs in exchange for terminating the agreement by which OTC-campus office space was provided. The USFA, along with several (5ish?) other NGBs used that lump sum to purchase a building together. The USFA owns some percentage of this building (~40%?).
I remember an article about it in American Fencing that should have more definite details than my relatively vague recollections. Valuable source of information, the magazine. Makes me kind of wish I DID keep old copies around.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
Location: the Salle(I no longer have a home address)
Posts: 1,360
USFA NO and relation to recall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiavona
Well, they can expand the coaches' college, different time of year, other areas of the country, 2-3 clinics, that sort of thing. "
Having been through coaches college for 2 weeks straight I really don't see how the folks putting them on could service or survive an expansion. As far as putting them on in other areas of the country, look at the logistics involved, housing, food, gym area. Use of the USOC facilities is the only thing which allows the price to be as reasonable as it is. Seriously, coaches college is about the best deal going in any activity that I know of. Getting to use the olympic center is a good part of the draw. Though truthfully the place is getting rather dated and the staff a bit demanding. And then there is having to stay with roommates. I'm a bit long in the tooth for living with fellows who have to party every night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiavona
They can pay the FOC people to give the clinics, rather than the local people paying for it (I don't see the USFA involvement here at all). "
The big issue there is getting people to complete the course. We're talking about training directors correct? What I've seen in NorCal is that we get a training program going and 2/3 or more of the entrants don't complete. So I'm not too keen on spending scarce monies to run the program. How about re-imbursements for those that complete and then work at some number of events?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiavona
The divisions we fence in are the USFA, are they not? Some places would seem to benefit from the National Office interfering, but I really don't see how the NO could. At the division level, if I don't like a certain club, the most I could (if Iwere a division officer) would be to screw them up in regards to the USFA! Local or national the USFA only has control over USFA things. There are at least two fencing clubs in my division that don't interact with the division or the USFA. Can the USFA interfer with them? Of course not.
I REALLY, REALLY like the insurance. I remember when it was first extended to the clubs, best thing since sliced bread."
Unfortunately the NO does interfere at times. In Texas I heard they sent someone down to deal with a situation where a clique had gained control of a division and was throwing their weight around. In NorCal they got up in arms reportedly about how the BayCup was being run. There the USFA office had weight because the insurance covering the BayCup series came under the USFA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiavona
I want programs that will benefit local fencers in my division directly, so I can say, "See? We were able to do this for you because you are a USFA member."
This I understand. But my gut feeling is that any such program would be most applicable to people who were interested in and had reached the level of being competitive. Your casual recreational fencer will mostly be pulled in by association with the competitive fencers he is in contact with.
Bottom line for me is that I want the USFA to be a bottom up organization with the clubs doing their thing and telling the USFA NO what they should be doing rather than the other way around. This recall for whatever reason it got started may be a move in that direction. We the lower echelons are learning about the organization. If the recall is successful then whoever gets the nod is going to need the members support. My understanding of the last election is that Ms. Anderson was elected by the USFA congress because she had no opposition. Someone correct me here if my understanding is flawed. But I don't remember ever being asked to vote for her. Maybe this time around I will be able to vote.
J.
The coaches college is a great success. Why can't they add a referee's college to it? That would be great. After attedning coaches college I agree it would be very hard to espand it but some sort of rotation like we do with the NACs would be good.
I think all the divisions that I have worked with are way to political. Why can't all the clubs get along? Answer: some are not about the sport, they are about themselves. I would like to see the USFA draft a basic bylaw officer info for all divisions to use with regard to officers and local operating committees that allows all the clubs to be represented in the local operating committees/Division Excutitve Committee. That would keep cliches from taking over in divisions as well.
I think all the divisions that I have worked with are way to political. Why can't all the clubs get along? Answer: some are not about the sport, they are about themselves. I would like to see the USFA draft a basic bylaw officer info for all divisions to use with regard to officers and local operating committees that allows all the clubs to be represented in the local operating committees/Division Excutitve Committee. That would keep cliches from taking over in divisions as well.
Just a thought.
I think they are too. Actually I KNOW they are. I went to the last meeting from my term in office and it was the same old crap. The same people bollocksing up the entire operation. No one coorperates. When we did decide on something it was never finished.
There is a great treasurer there now and really does the entire job of running our division. She is no bodys fool and tenacious as all get out, just what the division needs.
One of the people from a club in the division trys to get a stooge, or so they think, on the board. When the board won't do what this person says, there are threats of turning in the board to the USFA for various reasons.
I get so annoyed at how people in power lose the sight that this is for kids for the most part. It is a recreational sport. It i snot life and death and that getting a long should not be that hard.
Some people have to win, if they don't the crap flows downhill.
Sigh, I see the same thing happening to the people in charge of the USFA now.
It is so nice not to be on the board anymore.
Mo
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
The coaches college is a great success. Why can't they add a referee's college to it? That would be great. After attedning coaches college I agree it would be very hard to espand it but some sort of rotation like we do with the NACs would be good.
Just a couple of thoughts on this topic.
First, with regards to coaching education other than in the Coaches College format (residential week-long programs at the OTC)... The USFA does pay for regional coaching clinics. They don't advertise this particularly well, so most people don't know about its availability. For a nominal fee ($100 + hotel costs, but not travel, IIRC) the USFA will send out a clinic-giver (eg Alex Beguinet, Ed Richards, etc.) to give a weekend-long (or day-long) clinic on any of a number of topics. From the one I attended and the others that I've seen advertised these generally are a shorter version of the level 1 Coaches College curriculum. Sort of an introduction to the CC methods and material. I believe that these clinics are not limited to that material however, and the covered topics are arranged between the person organizing the clinic and the instructor of the clinic to best suit the needs of fencers/coaches in the area of the clinic. If you are interested in getting additional information I strongly suggest dropping a message to Alex. There was also talk of having Armoring clincs (with Dan DeChaine) as a part of this program, but I don't know if that ever materialized.
With regards to the idea of a referee's college, I think that the referee needs are mostly well met through the widely-available referee clinics. I believe that the list of clinc givers needs to be updated (from what I've heard this is in progress), with both additions and subtractions. While there are parts of the country where there is no clinic-giver locally, most of the fencers in the country are fairly well covered. There are at least several top-level clinic givers that are willing to travel to the areas that don't have local options. The clinics are additionally held at Summer Nationals, an event that a significant percentage of the USFA competitive members attend annually.
At a higher level much of the referee education is less formalized. But it certainly is there. I have had a significant amount of advice, coaching, and development work from more experienced referees/FOC members over the years that I've been refereeing, and it has certainly helped me develop as a referee (and, IMO, as a fencer and coach). Occasionally there is an attempt to run a clinic or workshop at NACs. Could there be more of this? Undoubtedly. That said, I don't see the need, demand, and potentially not the means, for week-long refereeing clinics. Certainly something COULD be structured with access to a sufficiently large video library of international bouts, but much of what high-level refs seeking to become top-level refs need can likely only be learned through experience. You won't learn what it's like to make a call in front of 700 partisan (and knowledgeable) fans in a gold medal bout from working in a gym with a dozen other referees-in-training in a simulated environment.
I think the level and availability of referee training in this country -- from beginning levels of experienced fencers just starting to work officially up through regional and to national levels and beyond -- is very high. The FOC, in general, and a number of FOC-members in particular, do a very good job of referee development. While just because something is very good doesn't mean that it can't be further improved or expanded upon, I think further improvements to the referee development system, which is a glowing bright spot, should be low on the priority list.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
Direct from her bunker in NJ, President-under-siege Nancy Anderson has issued her New Years Eve communiqué to the troops.
Her report, excerpted here, touts the following accomplishments:
1. The Mission Statement is current, has been distributed to the Board of Directors, and is the focus of the organization – and only 15 months behind schedule! (It might have taken slightly less time, but I didn’t know how to cut and paste the text of the Mission Statement from 2000)
2. USFA membership continues to grow at a faster rate than in past years (specifically the past years of 1942-1945)
3. USFA athletes continue to have strong international results (not counting men’s foil, men’s saber, men’s epee, women’s foil or women’s epee)
4. Many of the top US athletes are receiving stipends enabling them to continue their training and competition (thanks to their 2004 Olympic performance, for which I take full credit)
5. The USFA sent two representatives with the USOC visit to Beijing to develop critical contacts for our team at the 2008 Olympics; At the recent FIE Congress in Qatar, against the recommendation of the Executive Committee, the vote supported equality of events at the 2008 Olympics; most importantly, I had the best shrimp cocktail ever at Newark Airport after I missed the flight to the FIE congress. Yummy!!!
6. The USFA national tournaments are bigger and stronger than ever, the level of officiating is high and the venues are meeting the demands of the tournaments; in fact, I am sanctioning an NAC in Bismarck, North Dakota, because I’ve never been there, and get my airfare and expenses covered by the USFA! Anyone know where I can get shrimp cocktail in Bismarck?
7. The Youth Regional Committee of one has become more effective in providing high-quality regional competition for young fencers – especially when compared to FEMA.
8. A professional marketing group has been hired to give US fencing more exposure in the media and greater visibility for potential sponsors. Now all we need is some high profile result, like an Olympic medal and prime time media coverage, or something like that to give them some ammunition.
Yes, it’s been a heck of a 2005. Just wait ‘til next year.
Direct from her bunker in NJ, President-under-siege Nancy Anderson has issued her New Years Eve communiqué to the troops.
Her report, excerpted here, touts the following accomplishments:
<stuff deleted>
Ummmm... far be it from me to refrain from engaging in some good-old-fashioned satire, but, how does this kind of stuff advance the tenor and professionalism of the discussion?
__________________
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado." - Emiliano Zapata
In the spirit of Swift and Voltaire, satire has traditionally been employed to expose hypocrisy and misinformation. Although the thought of Ms Anderson exposed is pretty scary.
At this stage of the recall process, here is where it stands:
At the very least,
100% of the National Coaches have backed the recall
50% of the SECTION CHAIRS have backed the recall (more privately!)
Most of the Olympic Team has backed the recall (more privately!)
Numerous Divsion Chairs have backed the recall (many more privately!!)
Numerous members of various USFA Committees and Commisions have backed the recall (many more privately!!!!!)
Privately, numerous members of the USFA Executive Committee have backed the recall
Privately, numerous key advisors to Nancy Anderson have backed her removal, ideally in a resignation
Hundreds of USFA members have signed the petition to recall Ms. Anderson
***This is before the recall process really went public in the way of an email blast to the organization. (IT WILL VERY SOON!)
At some point, Ms. Anderson will have to decide to put the organization's best interests ahead of her own political concerns.
She is not up to the job. It is too late for band-aids and promises. Nobody is looking to "get her" or vault themselves into a position of political power.
Those behind this recall are taking a risk, with nothing to gain, in the most altrusitc manner.
They are looking to stop the bleeding and get the USFA back on course.
Right now, the USFA is broken, and sinking fast.
From the National Office to the International Program to the NACS to the Youth Program ( and regional circuit) to fundrasing to public relations to a crashing website to the failure to have online entries, the USFA IS BROKEN!
Nancy Anderson doesn't deserve to be blamed for all of the failures. But, she is ultimately responsible for most, and has proven to be incapable of leading the United States Fencing Association.
Tell her the truth.
Stop being nice to her, and at the same time, hurting the USFA.
Honesty is the best policy.
She has been repeatedly been offered the option to resign gracefully.
She has been anything but graceful.
Instead, she has been selfish, myopic, and has has put her own political position ahead of what is best for OUR organization.
IT IS TIME TO CUT OUR LOSSES AND TAKE CONTROL OF OUR BELOVED
UNITED STATE FENCING ASSOCIATION!
No offense to Nancy Anderson. Nice person, awful President. Leaders lead, losers languish.
The USFA is languishing under Ms. Anderson's failed attempt to "lead" the USFA.
Throughout the entire country, some have resited the recall process.
Throughout the entire country, some have tried to put a band-aid on the gaping wound.
BUT, throughout the entire country, NOT ONE PERSON HAS DENIED THAT NANCY ANDERSON HAS BEEN A COMPLETE FAILURE AS USFA PRESIDENT!
Time to cut bait and move forward.
Nobody has denied that Nancy Anderson has done a terrible job. Yet, for some strange reason, people are afraid to hurt her feelings.
Time to worry about the USFA, not Nancy Anderson's feelings.
Until she hears it from far and wide, she will continue to think everything is "OK" and she can continue to send out emails with pictures of cats!
Hell hath no fury.... like the above poster. Beware of scorned women.
Again with the anonymous accusations with no proof.
What we have here is a big pile of hear say... nothing more.
You want support? Be more specific. She was asked to resign? OK, who asked when, where, under what circumstances. Who was there?
The USFA's International Programs are broken? How? Will there not be a team this year? Are we being banned from World Cups? Are we not sending enough referees with our squads? The biggest problem that I know of is the mega delay in selecting designated World Cups for the ME program. I am much more likely to lay that cleanly at the feet of the man who huffed off and abandoned his post. Yep, he quit, and now he's apparently one of the petitioners crying about a lack of leadership by the president.
__________________ Quit touchin' me, ya freak
F.Net Rule #1: E. L. E. (everybody love everybody)
So as I understand it the platform they're running on for the petition is the new unnamed replacement president if its successful would have a better answering service for phone calls?
So there are basically two planks to this as I see it. A bunch of folks I never met don't like her and the replacement president as yet to be named would have a better answering service.
Do you at least have a name of who else would be the president instead? Could we have an inspiring speech of his grand vision for the future of the USFA and how he'd do it differently? I think that might help.
Also, I'd like to be the first to be in official denial that she has been a complete failure as a USFA president. Don't worry, I voted for Perot too.
I've been a member of the USFA for 5 years now, during which time we've had 2 presidents.
Other than the 'non-capitalization of gold medals and the Linz issue which are specific to Nancy's term....all of the complaints towards the USFA have been around forever it seems and are thus not Nancy's fault.
Truely she and Massik are continuing the tradition of doing business using Pleistocene-era methods...but it wont get any better by firing them. or by SOLELY firing them.
The idea that one can run an institution of this size with only volunteer positions is absurd.
We need real managers who can plan the work and then WORK the PLAN.
It takes talent to raise money...and dedicated workers...not just people who do it as a part of their job function.
Finally if money is at least a part of the solution to most problems we need a team of people to manage, invest and spend it with USFencing needs in mind.
Actually, this is a perfect opportunity to revamp the USFA into the premier fencing organization of the world.
But to blame Anderson/Massik for these problems is horse****. You can however blame them for continuing them.
I think they need to be a part of the solution; i wish we could get a real manager from Corporate America to come in and rehash everything and coach those to in how to succesfully manage this organization and effectively manage those changes that are necessary into fruition.
I realize that the party in power sets the agenda, and therefore it's often hard to establish that without already having seized power.
However, replacing the president seems like a fairly major step. (Or is it minor? That hasn't been established.) After reading this thread, which is seemingly dissolving into snark rather than providing any more useful enlightenment, I'm no more pro- or anti- Nancy Anderson than at the very beginning.
Missteps have been made; like most, I can think of plenty of personal gripes about the USFA. But if the folks behind this recall are so adamant about their positions, perhaps they should articulate how they would change things. Without passing judgement on the parties (I know none of them well enough), who is to say that Nancy Anderson's replacement would be less myopic, or less hamstrung by a lack of resources?
To impress me and mine, stop claiming a lack of interest in power. Take that effort and develop a plan for moving forward. I could care less if Ms. Anderson's eventual replacement is a megalomaniac or not, if they're an effective manager and agent of change.
Dr.Lutz claims that 100% of National Coaches have backed the recall. I believe this claim to be specious. Do not open yourselves to doubt by resorting to exaggeration.
Please, make your case openly and clearly, with no hyperbole. Present an alternative plan, striking while the iron is hot.
As I recall, the Women's Epee coaches, or at least the one who posts here, disclaimed any connection with it.
Quote:
I think the level and availability of referee training in this country -- from beginning levels of experienced fencers just starting to work officially up through regional and to national levels and beyond -- is very high. The FOC, in general, and a number of FOC-members in particular, do a very good job of referee development. While just because something is very good doesn't mean that it can't be further improved or expanded upon, I think further improvements to the referee development system, which is a glowing bright spot, should be low on the priority list.
Well, I guess it depends on what we're talking about. Certainly the seminars I've attended have been very good, and I'm glad for that. However, while the steps from unrated to 9 or so are pretty clear, the steps from 9-6 so far are informal advice at tournaments and "referee more". Which is certainly welcome, but more official publications, newsletters, seminars would be nice, or some other clearer path.
I'm forwarding Nancy Anderson's response to the discussion group because it matters to the discussion. It's from a source I trust.
I'm not taking sides at the moment because
1) I don't think that (at the moment) enough people have put their cards on the table -- Ms. Anderson's detractors haven't clarified the real issues, while her defenders, including Ms. Anderson herself (see below), haven't directly responded to the charges; and
2) as a publisher of fencing books, I hope do business with the entire fencing community, which will continue no matter who wins any particular fight.
Anyway, here -- for the sake of advancing the discussion -- is Nancy Anderson's response:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The USFA is in good health:
There IS a Mission Statement in place (largely reflective of what the previous administration had envisioned in order to carry forth that very successful quadrennium) that was finalized and distributed to the Board of Directors. I hope that all of you have received that Statement from your Board members. We have already managed to meet some of the goals and expectations of that Mission Statement; others are in place and operative.
· Our membership is larger and stronger across divisions than it has ever been.
· Our finances are “in the black” –which has not always been the case.
· Our athletes continue to show VERY strong results in the international arena.
· Looking only at our Cadet/Junior world results thus far (the Senior World Cups are only beginning to get underway), we have 7 gold medals, 4 silver medals, 6 bronze medals, and an additional 18 athletes finishing in the top eight. I’m sure you are all well aware of the excellent showing of our athletes at the Leipzig Senior World Championships!
· Many of our elite athletes are receiving substantial stipends to help them focus on training and competition; our weapon programs are also receiving significant subsidy.
· In conjunction with a USOC trip, the USFA recently sent two representatives to meet with the Beijing Organizing Committee and, specifically with their members in charge of fencing. It was a productive meeting that provided important groundwork for ongoing planning. This is almost two years earlier than we were able to meet with the Athens organizers, which should create greater ease for our athletes competing in the 2008 Olympics.
· At a recent Congress of the International Fencing Federation (FIE), the US played a strong role in ensuring that there be equity in gender representation of events at the 2008 Olympics (the proposal was for 3 individual events for both men and women, but 3 team events for men and 1 team event for women). When the vote was taken, the result was for two team events for both men and women. The determination of which teams will take part in Beijing, will happen at the FIE General Assembly at the Junior/Cadet World Championships in Korea in April. We will continue to lobby with the International Olympic Committee that fencing be given full parity, with team events in all three weapons for both men and women. But at least there is gender equity and I feel that the US played a large part in achieving that by solidifying the Pan American Fencing Confederation block to support that stance.
· Our national tournaments are bigger and stronger than ever (with increased participation from athletes from other countries who see these tournaments as important for their own development). This growth has brought about considerable challenge, but we still manage to end events at a reasonable time (usually by 8:00 p.m.), the quality of venues and of refereeing is consistently good, we are moving to cities that offer more economical travel and economical hotels located within easy access to the fencing sites.
· A National Tournament Task Force has been created to evaluate the current purpose of our national tournaments, the best combination of events, scheduling (both in terms of the season and within a given tournament), venue requirements, etc. A preliminary report will be given to the Board at their meeting in February; recommendations of the Task Force will be presented to the Board in July.
· Our Youth Regional program is coming into its own, with better and larger local/regional competition for our youngest athletes. That process will continue to evolve and improve with lessons learned this season.
· We are increasing the visibility and full incorporation of what has been too often considered our “fringe” athletes: we hosted a Veteran World Championships in Florida in the fall with increased (and very pleased!) international participation over previous Championships; the Veterans Committee has been very active in addressing the prominence of its constituency both domestically and within the international arena. We are also in the process of fully incorporating wheelchair fencing into our Association so that, what has been a “back door” arrangement (fully recognized by the USFA, but not by the US Paralympics organization) will now come under our wing. We have an active Committee fully in place to facilitate our wheelchair athletes to shine!
· We have contracted with a professional marketing group (following extensive research and hiring processes) to place our sport into the broader public eye, leading to increased media coverage and sponsorship potential. Many of you have received a survey (with significant response) that will help that firm accurately represent the value of fencing.
· We are implementing procedures to showcase fencing in school programs, thus creating increased awareness of the sport and broadening the base for future high-level fencing athletes.
· With strong leadership from the Athletes Advisory Group, we are asking former Olympic athletes to form an “alumni group” that will assist with the promotion of the sport and support elite athletes looking towards participation in the Beijing Olympics and beyond.
· The Fencing Officials Commission has put into place a program to identify and facilitate the development of referees at every level.
· We have been able to reformat our website, but there still needs to be greater currency of events and easier access to information that the membership wants. We are attending to that. Stay tuned for additional important links and support for all fencers.
· The various components of our organization need to be in closer contact to support one another rather than duplicating efforts and goals. We are working on that. So far, this has resulted in availability of “fencing scholarships” for camps and workshops, wider-reaching coaches’ programs, and instructional publications. Other efforts are underway to involve fencing in broader sports communities.
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