proper fencing distance vs. drilling distance (group lessons)

[El Chucko]

The director of my club teaches almost all group-lessons/drills at lunge distance. This includes drills of compound phrases such as feint-disengage attacks, feint-one-two attacks, counterparry-ripostes, etc. The defender in these drills is instructed to stand his ground, and resist the temptation to retreat. Two reasons are given for this: to develop a confident and quick parry, and to allow the attacker to close distance which allows a riposte.

I think that this drilling protocol may have led many of our fencers to have an unrealistic perception of proper fencing distance. In tournament, many feel the need to advance to lunge distance first, before even preparing to attack or defend themselves. Needless to say, they usually get stuck. As I have begun to help coach with the beginners and intermediate students, this has led to a bit of a quandry.

I agree with the need to develop a dependable parry without always relying on retreating. On the other hand, few opponents in competition will let you get that close. I think it would be beneficial to run drills from advance-lunge distance, etc., to better replicate actual tournament situations.

What, in your opinion, is proper fencing distance? Is there a proper "drilling distance"? Is there any difference?

(The correct answer no-doubt is "it depends on the situation," but that doesn't make it any easier to teach group lessons!)

[Mr Epee]

What you may not understand is that most fencers will never understand fencing, or proper distance. period. Drilling is definitively an artificial environment - so are lessons for that matter. No amount of smoke and mirrors can make them otherwise.

People who have bad distance during drills will have bad distance period.

Your coach cannot be responsible for an individuals lack of critical thinking skills.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Proper fencing distance? No such thing exists (actually, it does exist, but there is no way to define it). The proper distance is the one that lets you hit your opponent, and prevents him from hitting you. Instead of worrying about distance, just do alot of footwork drills, and experiment with different distances on different opponents.

[jBirch]

There are different drills for different distances. Helping a student understand the concept of distance and timing is the essense of coaching fencing.

That said, I'm not sure what you mean by "group lessons". Most "group lessons" are mimicry where the students do an action (normally in a line) and the coach corrects. This is done at "super far" distance where there is no way in hell the student can hit the coach. What you call "group lessons" I have sneaking suspicion are what we call "partner lessons", where you have two fencers working a drill together (like parry riposte).

What you can do to instill an understanding of distance/timing is to introduce the concept of temporal variety into the drill. Example:

1) Fencer A does a lunge to target and Fencer B stands their ground and parry ripostes. This is what you're doing now.

2) Fencer A does an extension to target and Fencer B parry/ripostes and retreats. This must be done at extension distance.

3) Fencer A does an advance-lunge to target and Fencer B does a retreat, parry-riposte. This is done at lunge distance. Fencer A must extend their arm first or else B has nothing to parry.

4) Fencer B does an advance, Fencer A does an extension, Fencer B parry ripostes. This is done from lunge distance.

5) Fencer B does an advance, Fencer A retreats with an extension, fencer B beat attacks. This is really just a beat attack, but shows the difference between a parry and a beat. Same timing.

6) Fencer A does a lunge to target, Fencer B does an advance, parry riposte (infighting). This gets the counter-intuitive motion introduced. Especially useful against excessive flickers.

7) Fencer A does a fleche, Fencer B holds their ground and does a parry w/ opposition. This is done from advance-lunge distance.

8) Fencer A does a lunge, then a retreat. Fencer B does a parry followed by a lunge. This is done from lunge distance. The retreat must be snappy.

9) Fencer A does a lunge, then a double retreat. Fencer B does a parry followed by an advance lunge. This is done from lunge distance (sometimes done with a short lunge/feint) and the retreat must be snappy. The advance lunge must explode.

10) "Chase drill" where Fencer A advances and Fencer B retreats until Fencer A launches a lunge and Fencer B parry-ripostes. With and without lunge. Do the same thing with Fencer A retreating instead of advancing.

After you've done those, execute them with a short pause in the parry. Ie// Make the parry, say "One!", then riposte. Particularly good for riposte w/disengage or one-two.

Same drill, lots of different distances/timings.

Hope this helps.

James.