Armory as a job?

[saberkid]

well, I've been head armorer at my club for about a year and a half now, and it was paying for lessons each week... now im suposed to write down my hours of armory work that i do, but i was just kinda wondering what a "usuall" pay rate would be... im getting 6.50... and im armorer for more than 300 ppl... (lots of work)

Chris

[damianip]

Originally posted by saberkid:
<STRONG>well, I've been head armorer at my club for about a year and a half now, and it was paying for lessons each week... now im suposed to write down my hours of armory work that i do, but i was just kinda wondering what a "usuall" pay rate would be... im getting 6.50... and im armorer for more than 300 ppl... (lots of work)

Chris</STRONG>

Charge 'em by piecework. The more skilled and efficient you get, the more money you can make.

After a while, subcontract out the work, and you can retire before you become "sabreadult"

Paolo

[saberkid]

well, a lot of this is for a full club, so i make the sabres they sale, and fix the body cords that we rent. For all the other ppl, i do charge them for the fix... but im not sure how much to charge, because i can do it VERY fast(i can make a sabre in less than 3 minutes, even if the blade is to larg to fit the gaurd, i can make an electric foil in about 10-15) body cords are easy, it only takes some time if i have to solder connections, or if i have to repair a machine or floor reel...

but all in all i know what im doen, and i do most of it pretty fast. Im still learning some about epee, but i know a lot with foil, and almost everything i need to know with sabre.

if any of that makes a difference.

Chris

[Gav]

Most of the armourers I know do it for free. But as a service to our club one of the guys does a rewiring service for which he charges a nominal fee (£5 a blade incl. wire). You raise an interesting point sabrekid. Most clubs I know have a dedicated armourer who just do the work because they volunteer for the job. However it is a skilled, time consuming job. For instance it doesn’t take all that much skill to put an epee together, a bit more to wire it, but it takes a lot more to take a box to bits troubleshoot problems and repair faults [one of the guys is an electronic engineer and does this when needed].

The bottom line is that I would charge for the type of service you provide. If you can put a sabre together in 3 minutes that’s all very well but does providing you with an hourly rate truly reflect the skill you have. Are you providing parts? Is this service stopping you from doing something else that you should be doing (I take it you are still at school)? Do you provide any other services? Talk to the person who holds the purse strings and haggle a bit. An electrician will charge for his services why shouldn’t you?

And on another note why don’t tourney armourers charge for their work? These guys turn up. Do a lot of grunt work for hours on end and generally don’t get paid (at least not in the UK as far as I know). Surely there’s a market for a professional service provided at an affordable rate?

[big poppa]

I for one , would have no problem paying an armorer at a tourney. Heck it's a way tp make some extra cash. I became a true believer at a high school meet when several fencers saw me repairing equipment and asked if I could check their equipment as well.

[Moonitic]

My hubby takes care of the club weapons, generally for free (unless he uses his own supply, then he asks for a replacement). To rewire a blade, he charges $5. For other things, he doesn't necessarily charge...people (like the parents) just throw money at him.

[Mergs]

sabrekid,

You ask a perinnial question that anyone who charges for labor has wrestled with, from Boeing to the local handyman. The two main factors are what do you think you are worth and what is everyone else charging. The whole process can get very complicated (gee, I'm worth $10/hr, that means if it takes 5 minutes to change a spring in a tip, I should charge 30 cents, but that is if I am working non-stop for that hour.......) or you can group the repairs by type (major, minor and rebuild, minor being the spring example, major could be fixing a body cord and rebuild is putting together a weapon/rewiring a blade) then set your pricing according to how much and what type of work you expect to do vs what you are expecting to make. If we go the $10/hr and you expect to do 3 minor repairs and 2 major repairs in an hour (on average) then $1 for the minor and $3 for major will only net you $9 for the hour. So go for from there. I used to charge the following:

Look at $1 (Hey, can you look at this? Yup, it's an epee. $1 please)
Minor repair/diagnosis $ 2 (Can you tell me what's wrong with this? It's broke. $2 please)
Major repairs $4 - $5 (depends on the time it would take to repair the problem)
Rebuilds $10

The first two with comments may seem flipant, but if you are there to make money, you will be suprised at the number of people that expect free professional advice or service (Had one girl walk up with a fist full of epees and ask for me to check them out for her, expecting a full weapon's check for all of them. For free. My response was as stated in the "Look at" category above.). Ask any lawyer or doctor about this. Everyone of them will tell you of meeting someone in a social situation and when they find out their line of work, immediately are hit up for free professional advice. Now this from someone that is charging up to $500/hr! Yes, there is a certain amount of pro bono work that they do, but trust me, it's because they get a tax break off it, not out of the goodness of their heart (or if they don't it's so they can generate some income producing work).

I hope that this gives you some better insight.

[sallearmourer]

Saberkid,

I have doing armorey work for 20 plus years. I run a repair booth at NAC. Most of the fencing Vendors charges 20.00 plus parts for rewiring. At a NAC I charge 16.00 plus parts but I have alot of expenses associated with a NAC. Like the cost of power plus what the USFA booth fee is. To repair reels is 20.00 hr and parts. Plus the costs of tools to do the job right. But then we repair a lot more then just weapons. Now if the equipement is mail to me I adjust the price of repair work because the overhead is different working out of my shop at home.
Then is not enough money in the repair business to make a living out ofit. I can do because I am retire Military with that check coming in. On bodycords the prices runs any were from three dollars per end to 7.00 dollars per end. The germen runs more to fix then a leon Paul or a french one. The cost of new pins for germen runs 5.00 a piece. If you at a NAC come by my repair booth and pick up a price list that I work on and adjust over the past year. But charge by the piece and not by the hour. The club problem what apiece of work for supply a work area.

I know that NWFC take 30% of there armourer repair. But he has a new work area.
Its not how fast you get the work but is it correct that counts. I still make mistake every once in awhile.

Tim
Ye Olde Armourer

[saberkid]

Mergs, Thanx, thats some good insight, iv been doing the job for about a year and a half now, and people are always wanting me to test things for them for free, or fix things for free, i had one person dump 8 of their own body cords on my table, expecting me to fix them.. or ppl giving me they're masks to fix, but i cant just do it for free, i think maybe i'll take some of the pricing advice you said.

Tim, will you be in Sandy UT? if so, i should be there too.. so i'll drop by when im not fencing and talk to you.

as for doing it for free... i originaly did armory as a trade for private lessons.. but our "agreement" just changed a little, so im getting paid by the hour i work, but i still have to charge ppl for their own equipment. and i would fix there stuff for free(because i do so many other things at my club for free) but if i dont get paid any money... i cant go to turnneys and its already very financially tight... so i gota charge somethen

thanx all for your advice, it has been helpfull!

Chris

[Moonitic]

Being the constantly creative moneymaker I am, sabrekid...have you ever thought about running a division sponsored "Learn to Fix Yer Own Darn Stuff" seminar? If you're THAT well respected and trusted, you can charge a nominal fee, possibly hold it in the comfort of your own salle, and not be so burdened (8 body cords? SHEESH! I would have laughed at the guys). This idea was tossed around in the MI Division, but someone dropped it, I guess. I think it would be a great learning experience.

[sallearmourer]

I will be at Sandy Ut. So saberkod drop and say hi.

Ye olde Armourer

[saberkid]

moon, I tryed at our club a while ago, and nobody wanted to take the time to learn how(isnt that sad!) i'll probaly try it again, once i tell them how it will actuly cost something now, maybe that will be a little incentave do learn how to fix your own stuff eh?

i just couldnt imagine not knowing how to make my own sabre, or fix my own body cords, at Nationals, i saw a directer refing a bout, and one of the fencers body cords was broken, and he had NO CLUE on what to do, or even where to start, i just kinda walked onto the strip and showed him what to do.. but it was kinda like talking to a small child heh

Chris

[swordsen]

No one ever wants to fix their own stuff. (with the exception of a few loons like me)
I alwyas teach my student sto repair equipment. And after that I will help/supervise while they fix it or charge them.
for the folks with a handfull of bodycords at he club, I have gotten real good at pointing to the test box and saying there you go. If you need help ask.

[Catlady]

Boy, the fencers at your club don't know how good they have it. I hate fixing my own gear, as do most people,--and as I have admitted before am somewhat inept at it, however I was told that as a fencer I was now responsible, for the most part, for my own weapons and equipment. Not that others aren't willing to offer advice/suggestions and ocasionally bail me out of a complicated situation, or show me how to do something I don't know how to do,or lend the ocasssional hard to find tool but for the most part I'm in the same situation as exists at Swordsen's place.

Some of the more experienced fencers at SLF--definitely not me--will fix things for the juniors,--mostly the younger ones--, but even the juniors are mostly expected to be able to take care of their own stuff after a while. For me it's become somewhat of a matter of pride that I can and do fix my own things. I too can't imagine not knowing at least how to do common repairs. It's like owning a car, but not knowing how to change a tire or check the oil--which I also know how to do, despite being female. (Yes, I know female has nothing to do with it, but I got a comment from a neighbor once when he saw me checking the oil in my car that indicated otherwise, so I am making myself clear.) One day I may even be able to face the soldering iron without my usual trepidation , or one can hope.

[Moonitic]

Good money for you, sabrekid...but a very bad idea for those that don't want to learn. If anything happened to you, they'd be in a world of trouble. Since it's a new season, maybe there will be some who are interested. Even in our little club of 30 people, we still have an armorer & assistant. Never rely on only one person to do something important.

[saberkid]

lol, im in a club of 300plus people... and im the only 1... kinda funny... kinda sad...

Chris

[big poppa]

Eight bodycords, what daring, what nerves, what b***s, are they out their freakin minds! And they want you to do it for free. Dude charge whatever the market will bear, after all they should have checked their weapons the night before anyway.

[latenight]

I must be weird, because I would never let anyone else at my club fix my gear. That way if something fails at an important moment, no one is to blame but me. I wouldn't want to feel like someone elses bad wiring cost me a victory. Too easy to cause hard feelings that way. Plus I like knowing I have the skills and equipment to fix anything that needs it at anytime.

That being said, I'm always happy to show someone how to do something, but I wouldn't do it for them for free.