NAC "C" Pittsburgh Review

[dukeofdoom]

Originally Posted by oso97

Somehow it seems that the FOC has decided that they're giving me the chance to develop skills in each of the weapons - this weekend it was epee until my eyes bleed! Albequerque they pushed me in foil until I begged for mercy. I'm hoping this means that Houston will be a sabre-heavy weekend for me...

Anyway, though, I do want to appologize to the ladies who were subjected to that young referee. He wasn't just bad, he was scared and completely subject to the mildest suggestion. He needs CLUB level practice refereeing, and a lot of it. A world team point event is not the place for him to learn....

I agree. Even highly rated referees may be out of their element (or comfort zone).

I suspect that directors are "rotated," rather than relying on the established expertise of some.

A remarkable number of referees in the epee comps were certainly unused to watching the strip edge. Countless calls were missed, and at least one semifinal bout decided wrongly, because the referee (clearly not familiar with high-level epee) did not notice that the fencer had stepped completely off of the side of the strip.

Another common problem was failure to understand the limitations on corps-a-corps in epee (as opposed to foil and sabre).

The morning breakfast seminar would be a good time to remind referees of important differences between the weapons. Passivity, what goes on at the strip edge, and differences in corps-a-corps (subtle and not-so-subtle) come to mind.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by dukeofdoom

The morning breakfast seminar would be a good time to remind referees of important differences between the weapons. Passivity, what goes on at the strip edge, and differences in corps-a-corps (subtle and not-so-subtle) come to mind.

*snort*

Sounds a verbatium script for every pre-tournament "breakfast seminar" I've attended in the past year or so at a NAC.

Originally Posted by dukeofdoom

Another common problem was failure to understand the limitations on corps-a-corps in epee (as opposed to foil and sabre).

The fencers could stand a review of those rules as well. The lack of a card for simple corps-a-corps in epee does not give you license to commit corps-a-corps to avoid a touch or corps-a-corps with jostling. And before I hear a comment along the lines of "unless you've competed in high level epee, then you can't have an understanding of when its simple and when its jostling" let me paraphrase a good friend of mine who responded to such a comment.

"No, I may not have fenced elite level epee, but I have played sports where body contact is part and parcel of the game. And I know a body check when I see one!"

[Inigo_Montoya]

Originally Posted by Fechter1

True, the timing of the snowfall was unfortunate, and made the approach thursday night more than a little interesting. But do you seriously fault the USFA for that? How could they have known that there was going to be a snowstorm coming through right at that time? Refer back to FencingMom's post for a more detailed argument here.

(BTW, if you can tell me what the weather's going to be for the April NAC, I'd appreciate it so that I can account for it in my travel plans...)

I wasn't suggesting the USFA should be held accountable for the snowstorm. I was just suggesting that they should schedule NACs this time of year where the weather is generally better (Like having a NAC this time of year in the West). I don't think the USFA is at fault, but should take into consideration the general weather patterns (the Midwest and parts of the East coast generally do not have the best weather in December and January).

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Of course the USFA can't be held responsible for weather...because there is bad weather somewhere in the US at any time of the year.

What they can be held responsible for is reacting to weather delays in a timely manner, and then communicating any changes to the people atttending the NAC.

To go back to the Pittsburgh meet...O'Hare was closed at 4 p.m. on Thursday. Yet, the bout committee didn't alter the start time for the Friday morning events until nearly the close of registration at 8 am. This hardly did anyone any good. People who were stuck in Chicago were frantically trying to find anyone at the USFA who could provide information on whether the start times would be delayed, but to no avail.

In the absence of any communications from the USFA, several strandees elected to go home from Chicago on Friday. They could have taken a 6 am flight from Chicago Friday morning and possibly just have met the extended deadline.

In circumstances like this, a recorded mesage line from the USFA would be a big help. That, and having someone take charge and make a decision in time to do any good.

[Inquartata]

It was a pleasant NAC, apart from the weather. Plenty of room, plenty of chairs, decent refs for the most part.

A few glitches, like the Div I MS fencers being scolded waspishly by the announcer at the BC table and exhorted to get to their strips because the pools had been posted and their refs were waiting...when in fact the pools had NOT been posted ( they announced three times that they had been before discovering the omission ).

And---I am now going to talk about the atmosphere of snobbery connected with the Div I MS. Not amongst the fencers, who the gods know have a right to feel a bit superior if anyone does. No, I mean amongst the officials. Nor am I talking about the seemingly widespread custom of giving the benefit of the doubt on any action which is not crystal clear to the fencer whom the referee has decided is the better of the two in a given bout. I am talking about one particular official in particular. Whose name I withhold, but whose initials are GK.


So, the Div I MS is over. The announcer asks the top 8 to go to the award podium for the medal ceremony. None does so. A second announcement. Still no one pays attention. ( No doubt they're very jaded, what with all the tiresome medals they've had to accept and all the rituals they've been forced to endure. )

I wander over to watch the awards. No one is there except the aforementioned high-ranking referee and a lady with whom he was engaged in desultory conversation while they awaited the tardy fencers.

Briefly, they look toward me. ( I do not say at me...maybe through me would be accurate. ) In that moment, I say "Looks like no one is coming. I'll take their medals" or words to that effect.

Yes, a lame and no doubt hackneyed joke.

The two look at me for about half a second. Eyes stony and unblinking, faces utterly impassive. No reaction whatever. Turn back to their conversation.

OK, so I interrupted their chat. Fair enough. I sit me down to wait for the eventual arrival of the fencers. ( Well, six out of the 8, anyway. ) After a minute or two, a lady walks up---another USFA person, LOC, a fencers mom, I don't know---and says almost exactly what I'd said: "Looks like no one wants their medals, can I take them?"

Mr. Referee: "HA HA! Why not? You deserve a medal! Ha ha!" and promptly engages her in polite conversation.

Message received: Do not presume to approach the Great Ones if you are a nonentity. They Are Not Amused.

[Peach]

My rule of thumb is to assume that all bout committee members, senior referees, and coaches are completely psychotic by the third day of a three-day event, and any interaction I have with them should be filed under "Really Bad Dream" and promptly forgotten.

[Fencing Mom]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

In circumstances like this, a recorded mesage line from the USFA would be a big help. That, and having someone take charge and make a decision in time to do any good.

Changing a start time because of weather - and then communicating the decision has happened before, so it is not unprecedented. In 2002 the December Vet/Div 1 tournament was in Columbus. We were driving from Pittsburgh to Columbus in a snow storm to make an 8:00 close of registration the next morning when a coach called on our cell phone. The USFA had changed the registration from 8 to noon, told coaches who were telling their students. So intelligent decisions can be made, they just weren't made this weekend.

[telkanuru]

Hum. Well, aside from getting in at 4:30am on the morning of my event after a 10 hour drive through snow that included, among other things, a detour into a ditch and a hard push up a rather slippery hill, and the absurd cost of food at the venue, I had no particular complaints about the tournament.

Div 1 ME seemed to be run well enough, although not as swiftly as I was used to in a competition. The venue and hotel were very, very nice, and the not having to walk outside between the two feature was definitely appreciated. I didn't do much sight-seeing, but I did find a nice cheap restraunt about a block from the venue.

It was also nice to put faces to names. Met Peach, saw Inq (who wears a DARK GRAY plastron, SCANDAL!) but he looked forboding and I don't like to introduce myself by my fnet name, saw Rebel from a distance in pools and couldn't find him after, hung out at the fencing.net booth for a while. Whoever saw a scruffy kid with tan pants and a black shirt over a red one, that was me! Also, it seems I was the only person in the venue with a red mask.

I had no problem with the reffing, but I didn't really try to do anything questionable.

Highlights of the weekend include, but are not limited to Jay's discovery of the Irish Car Bomb, stories told by certan NYAC fencers, certain comments made by fnet members about the behaviour of certain men's epee fencers, and other things.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Message received: Do not presume to approach the Great Ones if you are a nonentity. They Are Not Amused.

maybe it was due to the widespread rumors that you were wearing gear that was

*gasp*

not white!

[Peach]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

certain comments made by fnet members about the behaviour of certain men's epee fencers, and other things.

Heee heee heee heee. If you're talking about the one we witnessed together, that were one funny bout. Didn't know epee could be so entertaining.

[telkanuru]

I was referring to when a female sabreur asked "Why dosn't he just whip it out and wave it around?"

[Peach]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

I was referring to when a female sabreur asked "Why dosn't he just whip it out and wave it around?"

(snicker) You have a very good verbal memory.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I am talking about one particular official in particular. Whose name I withhold, but whose initials are GK.

...Stuff...

Message received: Do not presume to approach the Great Ones if you are a nonentity. They Are Not Amused.

Don't feel to bad. In my limited experiance with the person in question, if you are not already known to him for some reason, anatomy plays a great deal in how you are dealt with.

And there was that thing with the non-white gear. Perhaps he sensed your hypocrasy and found it offensive. But it was more likely that you just weren't a chick!

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I wander over to watch the awards. No one is there except the aforementioned high-ranking referee and a lady with whom he was engaged in desultory conversation while they awaited the tardy fencers.

Briefly, they look toward me. ( I do not say at me...maybe through me would be accurate. ) In that moment, I say "Looks like no one is coming. I'll take their medals" or words to that effect.

Yes, a lame and no doubt hackneyed joke.

The two look at me for about half a second. Eyes stony and unblinking, faces utterly impassive. No reaction whatever. Turn back to their conversation.

Inq got served!? What is this world coming to?

If it makes you feel better, I would have laughed, or at least smiled politely at your joke.

[bigdawg2121]

Maybe they really didn't hear what you said and were looking to see if you'd say something else Inq. Either that or they weren't feeling sociable and didn't feel a need to put on a happy face for you as opposed to someone who had been running around and photocopying for them the past 3 days. Still sucks though.

As for the tournament I personally was a fan of the venue (for as much of my tax money as they spent to build it I should be :-P), however, I didn't like the land bridge. Up a floor, down a floor, blah blah blah, it was easier to walk outside and up the escalator. Flights in on Thursday evening were indeed rather harrowing but we all survived so no harm no foul right? There are alot of cheap restaurants in the area, both downtown and in the Strip District (2 - 6 blocks away). Pittsburgh is largely a rather working class town, no way anyone that lives there would pay the hotel prices for food. They're talking about having more tournes there, maybe Nats so in the future I recommend Peppi's a sandwich shop in the strip (or down Smithfield at the other location). The rooms were nice, liked the steam room, sauna, hot tub setup. Tournament ran smoothly, we were in and out on time mostly. There wasn't much to do, downtown anyway. Stiller's tickets are hard to come by and it would have been more worth it to go see the Pens play the Avalanche, especially since Mario is saying he's gonna take the Pens from Pittsburgh. Nutcracker was playing at Heinz Hall, expensive tickets though. I hear the boys liked Sanctuary and some of the other bars...although Jay didn't need to leave the Westin to go through his 5 car bombs in 10sec. How does that man have a liver that still functions and manage to not be sick at all the next day?

SO who was this mysterious young and scared saber ref Peach? Name names, we all deserve to know who to be wary of, or to argue that they're really not that bad :-P

[Peach]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

SO who was this mysterious young and scared saber ref Peach? Name names, we all deserve to know who to be wary of, or to argue that they're really not that bad :-P

Oh, I don't remember his name, and that's just as well. He will never be that scared (or that young) again, and he will undoubtedly be my referee some other day and I won't even notice. I've been doing this long enough to remember when some now-very experienced people started out.

[darius]

it would have been more worth it to go see the Pens play the Avalanche, especially since Mario is saying he's gonna take the Pens from Pittsburgh.

We scored 10th row blue-line seats from a scalper for 1/2 of face value. Sloppy blueline play by the Avs and starting a rookie goalie hurt them, but it was neat to see a Sakic/Hedjuk/Tanguay goal.

Sidney Crosby's the real deal, too.

darius

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

How does that man have a liver that still functions and manage to not be sick at all the next day?

In fact, it was discovered on the second night that Westin's hotel bar serves Car Bombs for very cheap price! The bar ran out of shot glasses, and the ICB marathon was put to a halt until the dishwasher returned with clean glasses. Upon arrival at home airport, a local referee (who was not at Pittsburgh) joined the celebration by resuming the said marathon at a local Friendly's. The bartender was so impressed with the story, he modified the price of the drink to a "happy hour" price in order to facilitate lengthier festivities!

Car bombs forever......

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Highlights of the weekend include, ......

And "free money stop" on the way home?