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I live to FENCE · 12-07-2005, 11:31 PM

Okay, so last night, i went down to the club to collect my epee from my coach as i had it rewired. He told me he had put on a new grip for me so i assumed he had put on a zivkovic grip for me as we had been having a discussion about zivkovic grips. Boy was i shocked when i got back an epee with a pistol grip that was significantly longer! What he did was saw off the front portion of a pistol grip and he welded it to mine! So now my reach has become significantly longer. I'll try to post some pics later.

Anyone have any i dea if this is legal, though i doubt so... Any opinions DHCJr? Anyone? And i'm also planning to get a zivkovic grip. Any epeeists out there who have had experiences with the zivkovic grips? Actually anyone with experiences with zivkovic grips will also do.

Cheers and thanks in advance.

keropie · 12-07-2005, 11:48 PM

from USFA rulebook m.4:

6. 6. If the grip (or glove) includes any device or attachment or
has a special shape (orthopaedic) which fixes the position
of the hand on the grip, the grip must conform to the
following conditions.
(a) It must determine and fix one position only for the
hand on the grip.
(b) When the hand occupies this one position on the grip,
the extremity of the thumb when completely extended
must not be more than 2 cm from the inner surface of
the guard.

So, essentially as long as your thumb is within 2cm of the guard, you're ok. Otherwise, no.

As for Zikovic grips, I used to use one (I think the z II?) on my foils, and found the shape of the grip pleasing, but the angle it made with the blade to be tilted upwards, and after a brief trial period gave up on the grip. I'm sure you could bend the tang enough to make up for it, and in epee maybe it won't make as much of a difference. But I don't use it any more (back to the Allstar/Uhlmann/Negrini small Visconti grips... and the Absolute mold that more resembles the Uhlmann is nice, too...)

I live to FENCE · 12-08-2005, 12:12 AM

OK i guess the grip is legal. It's a pistol grip so it definately fixes my hand in one position. I measured The distance from the tip of my thumb to the guard and it was 1.75 cm so i guess i'm safe right. There is one down side though. I usually flick and now the angle and force required to flick is totally different!! I'll get used to it though

...

About the zivkovic grips, a fellow epeeist and my coach recommended them to me so i guess i'll try em out. Thanks for your help keropie

Mr Epee · 12-08-2005, 12:30 AM

You have given up a ton of leverage, for 3/4" of reach.

Congrats :-)

Duellist USA · 12-08-2005, 01:30 AM

Currently I dont own a epee that does NOT have a zivkovic grip on it....and the wife is the same with her epees and foils...there is an adustment period but the point control and flicks to the hand are just great...It DOES take alittle more tweak to the cant of the blade to make it work perfectly though....more a feel thing than the standard.....but no complaints about teh grips what so ever....I do use the original K series though...never liked the others as much..

RIck Shellhouse
Duellist USA

ReverseLunge · 12-08-2005, 01:31 AM

I have a feeling this is bull. Aluminum cannot be welded.

I live to FENCE · 12-08-2005, 02:45 AM

It's an uhlmann un-insulated grip. I wouldn't know, my coach had it done for me.

atomium · 12-08-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I have a feeling this is bull. Aluminum cannot be welded.

Tell that to my Cannondale mountain bike.

KD5MDK · 12-08-2005, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I have a feeling this is bull. Aluminum cannot be welded.

It's quite tricky, but I know it can be done. How else are, say, ships and such made out of aluminum put together?

Gav · 12-08-2005, 04:42 AM

I would like to see some pics. From the description I am extremely sceptical about it's legality.

rudd · 12-08-2005, 06:09 AM

You can TIG weld aluminum

fencergal33 · 12-08-2005, 08:46 AM

I like a Zivkovic grip on my foils, but not a whole lot on my epees. Although my backup epee has one on it, I don't use it much. It tends to make my hand cramp, so I use Russian.

Adler · 12-08-2005, 09:01 AM

My experience with Zivkovic grips has never been very positive as they seem to destroy the finger control of the people who use them.
I have given lessons to several people using them and all of them have had large and uncontrolled actions and a near death grip on their foil which improved dramatically after lent them my ordinary allstar grip foil to do the same actions as a comparison.

shlepzig · 12-08-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I have a feeling this is bull. Aluminum cannot be welded.

Aluminum is very reactive so it can't easily be welded with a Oxy-Acetylene torch process (though some very talented people can do it).

It is very easily welded in any inert gas environment such as TIG or MIG, or any appropriate wire feed process.

shlep

Bran · 12-08-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I live to FENCE

Anyone have any i dea if this is legal, though i doubt so... Any opinions DHCJr? Anyone? And i'm also planning to get a zivkovic grip. Any epeeists out there who have had experiences with the zivkovic grips? Actually anyone with experiences with zivkovic grips will also do.

I'm also curious to see those photos.

Although grips are very personal for epee fencers we typically recommend one of our larger, heavier designs, mainly for two reasons: First, epee fencers tend to be taller and thus usually have larger hands than foilists and second, epee weapons are heavier than foil weapons and so a heavier grip helps create more balance.

I am not sure about your circumstances but with that in mind I would mention the B, BII, the G and possibly the ZII:

http://www.zivkovic.com/item.jsp?web_id=402
http://www.zivkovic.com/item.jsp?web_id=404
http://www.zivkovic.com/item.jsp?web_id=408
http://www.zivkovic.com/item.jsp?web_id=422

Bran

Larrison · 12-08-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlepzig

Aluminum is very reactive so it can't easily be welded with a Oxy-Acetylene torch process (though some very talented people can do it).

It is very easily welded in any inert gas environment such as TIG or MIG, or any appropriate wire feed process.

shlep

It's also very easily welded through methods like Friction Stir Welding.

edew · 12-08-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I have a feeling this is bull. Aluminum cannot be welded.

Welding is not required. Just add the additional "shim" up front, tighten the pommel nut and voila!

remise · 12-08-2005, 02:09 PM

If you fence epee, I would recommend the "B". It has enough counter-balance to create a wicked-fast tip, and like Bran says, is made for guys with large hands. For foil, the BIII is good because it allows you to infight without having a tongue dig into your wrist.

With regards to point control, I would say that the Zivkovic grips are not for beginners, but for those fencers with pre-estabished point control. I personally fence epee with a French Grip and the "B", and can switch back and forth between the two without any problem whatsoever.

glowstix · 12-08-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropie

(b) When the hand occupies this one position on the grip,
the extremity of the thumb when completely extended
must not be more than 2 cm from the inner surface of
the guard.

that's not good for me..good thing they don't check

. my hands are small and the russian is long and my thumb easily exceeds the 2cm mark. its more like 1.5in.

bnanaman · 12-08-2005, 04:11 PM

I'm kind of here and there on the zivkovic grips. I still use a zivcovic B on my epees. I used to use a G on my foils, but it tends to send my point control all over the place. The problem is really that it fits my hand too well, so that I can't hold the blade properly with my fingers. I recently switched back to the visconti, despite the fact that it is slightly uncomfortable.