Bouncing

[leapyear]

I've tried searching the forum for info on this, with no luck so far. So:

I was always told to never "bounce" up and down while on guard, because your opponent will be able to attack while your feet are in the air.

But I've been watching video of world-class athletes, and all but one or two are constantly up and down up and down and up and....
you get the picture.

Is this something that only the very best should even try, or is it a useful technique for ordinary schlubs like me?

Any thoughts?

Thanks...

[telkanuru]

Your feet don't leave the ground when you bounce correctly. It allows you to cut your opponent's tempo and not be caught flat-footed.

[glowstix]

this topic has come up several times before, i can't believe a search didn't produce any results. i know one thread title had the word "hopping" instead, .

anyway, i'm mixed about the bouncing issue. its true that 99% of the top epeeists bounce. i myself am caught between bouncing and not bouncing. i'm sure others will outline several reasons to bounce.

bouncing allows you to change distances really quickly compared to a regular retreat and is good for epee since most actions explosive and won't involve chasing anyone down the strip as in foil/sabre. whether you bounce or not, its always good to be changing distances regularly and be able to change quickly. if you watch even closer, you'll see that the top fencers aren't exactly bouncing in place either. they're constantly changing distances. for me, i fence better without bouncing but those that know my or fence me say i'm unorthodox (but effective and rattle most of the fencers i've fenced at least ); then again, i'm also not that experienced, .

[glowstix]

Your feet don't leave the ground when you bounce correctly. It allows you to cut your opponent's tempo and not be caught flat-footed.

is bouncing actually taught?? i always got the impression that its one of those things that you just "pick up".

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Bouncing is used primarily in epee, and to a lesser extent in foil and sabre. The way to really bounce is to sort of slide back and forth, with your feet just skimming the ground. It allows you to scramble your opponents fine sense of distance, giving them a higher probability of making a movement at the wrong distance. The key is to not get too much airtime and only move an inch or two forward or back with each bounce. Think of your feet as an air hockey puck, just hovering.

You can see bouncing at many levels of competitive fencing. Become comfortable with the basic footwork in fencing (advance, lunge, retreat, fleche, ect....) before learning how to bounce. The good fencers (the world class ones that you mention) have a mastery of the basic footwork, and they can weld it seamlessly to their bouncing.

If you want to learn how to bounce on your own, there are a few drills you can do. The biggest one is jumping rope. Learn how to skip so that your feet barely clear the rope, and so that you can jump rope easily, at different speeds, for long lengths of time. The 2nd drill is to find your en garde, and make a chalk mark an inch back from your back foot, and a mark an inch in front of your front foot. Try to bounce back and forth without crossing the lines.

Learning bouncing is a matter of stamina, and neurological conditioning. Mostly neurological conditioning, as you want to be able to flow into your different cadences and distances effortlessly. Put simply, to bounce well, you have to practice it ALOT.

[noahz]

Take another look at those tapes. I think you'll find that they are not so much "bouncing" as taking small, light steps, interspersed with small jumps forwards and backwards.

So, while you don't want to bounce, you don't want to be caught flat-footed either.

[jessicasimpson]

is bouncing actually taught?? i always got the impression that its one of those things that you just "pick up".

Alot of Epee Masters teach bouncing. It is a good tool to teach kids (begginners) so they get used to changes in tempo. ie; bouncing is one tempo, stepping is another

[Feltan]

Learning bouncing is a matter of stamina, and neurological conditioning.

Or, having to take a pee really bad.

Actually, the point I was going to make was said above. It isn't so much bouncing-for-bouncing's sake, as it is a form of advance and retreat meant to deceive an opponents sense of distance and timing.

I will use it as a specific tool on occasion, but it isn't my prefered method. I find it kind of wasteful of energy and not all that effective -- I'd rather concentrate on moving up and down the strip like a panther rather than an ouncy-boucy-tigger.

Regards,
Feltan

[Morion]

At the level I fence at (way down in the mud) I find the bouncers to be amusing. They aren't good enough at it to be effective so I like to just stand there en garde and see how long they can keep going. Usually they exhaust themselves before the end of the bout.

[parrythis]

Bouncing - when used properly - can allow you to be very mobile and change your distance rapidly. You can lunge quickly and fool your opponent who may be expecting just another little hop.

On the other hand, a fencer who hops incessantly but doesn't do anything with it gives their opponent an opportunity. I have, on several occasions, timed my lunge to coincide with my opponent's forward hop. If he's willing to give up distance for my attack, who am I to refuse?

[slain4sooth]

... you know, i suspect bouncing is more of a way to limber oneself and control tension in the legs, and set up 'plyometric' muscle-loading than it is distance control.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

... you know, i suspect bouncing is more of a way to limber oneself and control tension in the legs, and set up 'plyometric' muscle-loading than it is distance control.

Dont think of it as distance control... think of your opponents sense of distance as a radar, and bouncing makes you a stealth bomber. It also loads the muscle for a springy action, sort of killing two birds with one stone.

[slain4sooth]

nice analogy; wouldn't occur to me to think that way because i've developed a profound disdain for 'noise and distraction' strategies, even when they could work well --a disdain that goes well beyond fencing, although i'll be the first to admit a measure of projection and overcompensation here.

[pacer]

If you try the "bouncing" or "hopping" remember that most of the motion is coming from the ankles. It's a way to stay in motion (and not get caught "flatfooted) and also to control the distance to a degree. While I cannot do it consistently during practice, I find it can 'just happen' during a competition.

[dknj]

If you think it'll help your fencing, try it out. If it doesn't, I'd drop it.