Acceleration into distance

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Alrighty, I'm having trouble accelerating into distance on my attacks. Like, for an advance lunge, I always end up short, or if get close enough, I get countered. The main problem is mental, I feel uncomfortable getting that close for a lunge. My game has mainly been fleches and counters. Any drills for overcoming the fear?

[Feltan]

I am sure others will disagree, but in epee your game should be fleches and counters.

An epee advance lunge in the absence of a bind is a good way to get hit in the knee/thigh.

Regards,
Feltan

[achilleus]

The issue is one of recognition and action. You need to recognize and act the moment you are at the critical distance. So, first, you need to be able to control the distance, and then you need to be able to act.

Often if you fall short, or get too close, you may not be controlling distance well in addition to not recognizing the proper distance.

Buckie Leach's Get Away Go drill, although manily used for foil is great for learning this. David Littel had some online resources describing the drill in detail. I'm sure a search on this website, or yahoo should turn up some info...

[Gav]

How about these clinic notes?

[Durando]

Originally Posted by Feltan

I am sure others will disagree, but in epee your game should be fleches and counters.
An epee advance lunge in the absence of a bind is a good way to get hit in the knee/thigh.

I would agree FWIW. Perhaps think about a disguised advance initiated from the back foot. What we used to call a "paranando" [sp?]. That should add a few inches to your attack. I remembered it this weekend watching an excellent French junior demolish a guy on toe touches--he hid the fact that he was really an inch or two closer than normal. By the time his opponent realized what was up, the attack would have already begun.

[Esotamoc]

1: u dont have to lunge

2: try attacking the arms knees and foot-ie not deep target
3: attack when your opponent is moving foward.
4: there are no bonus points for doing a nice advance lunge so if it is not working against a particular opponent- try something else!

[Oxi-Clean]

well fencing is all about confidence. You have to take risks to achieve greatness (some quote like that).

Plus strategy is most definately an issue in epee, for the counter attacks, try to fake/short a lunge lets them try to counter, take the blade, and close distance then finish.

To build up your confidence just work on it during bouts, infighting is a good way to build up confidence, i know you are very close to them and sometimes absence of blade, but you have to work on it.

well for your acceleration problem, maybe your going to fast in the first place, so you should slow down and have your advance lunge be much more explosive.

Also epee is not sabre... you can not expect to hit the first time you go in (not that it happens in sabre all the time), you have to recover after you have finished your attacks, and try again or try something different.

one way to help cure yourself of this ailment is that you can go to the KOS tournament in january. jan 14-15 all three weapons. so far B rated epee, B rated sabre, and D rated foil. Top notch fencers of the South East division. Come one come all. Go to http://askfred.net/Events/moreInfo.p...nament_id=1478 for more info.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Feltan

I am sure others will disagree, but in epee your game should be fleches and counters.

An epee advance lunge in the absence of a bind is a good way to get hit in the knee/thigh.

Regards,
Feltan

I disagree. Every move that you cannot execute well is a weakness. It never hurts to have another tool in the bag.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Alrighty, I'm having trouble accelerating into distance on my attacks. Like, for an advance lunge, I always end up short, or if get close enough, I get countered. The main problem is mental, I feel uncomfortable getting that close for a lunge. My game has mainly been fleches and counters. Any drills for overcoming the fear?

Attacking is inherently a more difficult task in epee fencing. In conventional fencing, a confident attacker is only working against 1 negative event (Parry Riposte), and 1 neutral event (a break in distance). The epee fencer is is also forced to contend with a second negative event (counter-attack) which is even more difficult to contend with than the parry-riposte.

Two things:

1. Physical - Start the actions closer to your opponent, especially if your attack involves any type of feint. Waiving your blade in a particular direction doesn't constitute a feint. The best feints will pierce the plane of the opponents comfort zone. Usually this plane coincides with the plane created by their bell guard, although for most beginners and intermediate fencers it exists further forward from their guard.

2. Psychological - Choose the right time to attack. This is very difficult to describe, but sometimes when you are really in the zone - it's almost like you can feel that your opponent is ready to be hit. Remember, if you want to win the game, you've got to beat the man. It's impossible for your opponent to be prepared to defend at all times. Break 'em down and hit 'em.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Oxi-Clean

one way to help cure yourself of this ailment is that you can go to the KOS tournament in january. jan 14-15 all three weapons. so far B rated epee, B rated sabre, and D rated foil. Top notch fencers of the South East division. Come one come all.

Or go to Houston for some even better fencing....

Scheduling opposite the D1/Jnr NAC has to be just about the worst conflict imaginable for an open tournament. I suppose it could be slightly worse if the NAC were a bit closer, but still....

-B

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Attacking is inherently a more difficult task in epee fencing. In conventional fencing, a confident attacker is only working against 1 negative event (Parry Riposte), and 1 neutral event (a break in distance). The epee fencer is is also forced to contend with a second negative event (counter-attack) which is even more difficult to contend with than the parry-riposte.

Actually in conventional weapons, you work against attempts to take the blade, parries, stop cuts and counter-attacks and the feared distance-parry (which is not a neutral, but a negative, since right of way passes to your opponent).

Be that as it may.

DFP, in sabre, if you are ending short, it generally means that you need to take another step forward in your preparation before launching your attack. I have no clue if this makes sense in epee.

Forcing the attack (i.e., attacking without tempo, which is what I think Antman is talking about in his psychological paragraph) will also often result in your attack being short. One of my coaches used to talk about "stopping" your opponent for an instant and attacking in that instant. I'd watch tapes of Laura Flessel if I was trying to make an advance-lunge work as an epee fencer--she seems to have the ability to catch the opponent flat-footed and explode into a ballestra lunge that is timed too well and is too fast for a counter to work against it.

Finally, as some others have noted, attacking is about courage.

MR

[Allen Evans]

Something else to consider in attacking is the zone of the strip. If you are launching your advance and lunge when you and your opponent are both in the middle of the strip, the opponent is much more likely to simply “fade” away from the attack…or feel comfortable enough to make a counter and escape. With the extra maneuvering room, the opponent is also likely to be much more relaxed and more capable of dealing with your attacks.

Sometimes on the attack it is better to maneuver the opponent to his (or even your) end of the strip. At the opponent’s end of the strip, they tend not to fade away from attacks. Their parries/counters tend to be earlier (and bigger) and your acceleration footwork will be more effective.

At YOUR end of the strip the opponent will often rush, take big steps, or make other errors in distance. This is a great time to advance with an invitation and take the blade in the subsequent “finishing” footwork (lunge or fleche) or make a simple attack in preparation, as long as you keep YOUR cool at the end of the strip.

Of course, mileage may vary. Attacking IS hard, and so many things contribute to it, it is difficult to have a simple solution.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Or go to Houston for some even better fencing....

Scheduling opposite the D1/Jnr NAC has to be just about the worst conflict imaginable for an open tournament. I suppose it could be slightly worse if the NAC were a bit closer, but still....

-B

Yeah, houston is the plan for january. Any tournaments coinciding with NAC's are just poorly planned.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Alrighty, I'm having trouble accelerating into distance on my attacks. Like, for an advance lunge, I always end up short, or if get close enough, I get countered. The main problem is mental, I feel uncomfortable getting that close for a lunge. My game has mainly been fleches and counters. Any drills for overcoming the fear?

look at it this way, i had the exact problem months ago. i concentrated on working on other things and then i lost my explosive fleche and was reduced to the other stuff i'd been working on. i'm just now getting the fleche back. oddly enough my fencing has gotten better i've been working on adv. lunges myself but it only works if i compress the distance to begin with which could be dangerous. now i'm scoring on long lunges and even redoublements after the lunges.

[Feltan]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I disagree. Every move that you cannot execute well is a weakness. It never hurts to have another tool in the bag.

Oh good.

I look forward to fencing you someday.

Regards,
Feltan

[Li'l Bebe]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Any drills for overcoming the fear?

To overcome fear: do it.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by glowstix

look at it this way, i had the exact problem months ago. i concentrated on working on other things and then i lost my explosive fleche and was reduced to the other stuff i'd been working on. i'm just now getting the fleche back. oddly enough my fencing has gotten better i've been working on adv. lunges myself but it only works if i compress the distance to begin with which could be dangerous. now i'm scoring on long lunges and even redoublements after the lunges.

Ya know, I have the same problem. I used to have a very good thigh shot, but then I started doing flicks and fleches, and now I cant do thigh shots... it seems like I sort of rotate moves in and out.

[ViewtifulMisho]

Originally Posted by Li'l Bebe

To overcome fear: do it.

I tend to agree with this. I mean, you pointed out your problem in the first post.

The next step is just to FORCE yourself to extend your attack. It will be ugly and you will get counter-attacked. But as long as you practice it with focus, you will shave off little bits of your attack here and there until you can do it without getting counter-attacked.

It's easier, mentally, to cut down a long attack than it is to extend a short attack. So it's better to start with an attack that is too long and fix it up rather than vice versa.

It's worth even losing a bout 15-0, because, if you're focused on the task at hand, you'll get a lot out of it.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Yeah, houston is the plan for january. Any tournaments coinciding with NAC's are just poorly planned.

I don't know about that. A "D" and under for this weekend wouldn't be unreasonable, for example. A bit of overlap with the vet events, but not excessive. Events aimed at snagging high-level competitors vs D1 or Jnr (or, worse, BOTH) NACs is really what I thought wasn't optimal planning.

-B

[sloper]

DFP,
Are you getting the most out of your back leg when you advance and lunge? Because that's the leg that should be driving the action. If it's not, then you kind of float or fall into your lunge, and I bet that's deadly in epee. In turn, that could be the source of your lack of confidence in the action.
When you advance, get your back leg good and under you as you complete the step so it can propel you into your lunge. Imagine the power coming from your the extension of your back knee and hip. This will give you more distance in a shorter time.

HTH,
Susan